Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

Discuss anything related to command line tools here.

?

I like it and will use it.
4
50%
Only if you wow me.
0
No votes
I have no use for it but don't oppose it.
2
25%
I oppose it.
2
25%
 
Total votes: 8

Message
Author
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Andrew Lee
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#31 Post by Andrew Lee » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:05 pm

vevy wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:20 am
There is not much I can do then. In any case, thanks for your past help.
Thanks. Please note that I do admire the passion you have for your vision. Although we ended up having very different opinions on which direction to go, I appreciate that our debate was always level-headed and civil, whether it's out here in the open forum, or in our PMs to each other. If only we have more people like you in terms of Internet discourse.

Anyway, let me summarize the situation (do correct me if I have misunderstood anything). The vision you have is a comprehensive database of CLI tools that can be sliced-and-diced by a large number of filters (I consider badges and use cases to be a form of filter). Although that vision is nice, I consider it impractical and not very useful. What I think would be more useful would be a form of what we have currently for the main DB, with minor changes to deal with the nature of CLI tools.

I think the gulf between the two destinations is simply too wide to be bridged, so the most obvious outcome facing us is to terminate the experiment. The next question is how to proceed with this.

First, the numbers. I did a quick check of the CLI database, and overwhelmingly the entries were vevy's contribution. There were very few other contributors:

- achadwick 1
- Achille 1
- Hydaral 1
- I am Baas 2
- Midas 1
- ozok 1
- Ruby 2
- stahlworks 1
- SYSTEM 3
- TP109 1

There are a couple of questions before us now:

- vevy, what is your preference in terms of your database entries? From your previous comments, I think it is unlikely that you want any form of the database to go live at this stage, since it will fall far short of your ideals. Is that right?

- Assuming vevy wishes to reduct all his current entries, do we still want a live CLI site? Is there enough interest to make it viable?

In terms of some of the minor enhancements that we've added to the CLI site (most of them vevy's request, I might add), I do plan to backport a few of them back to the main site in due course. So at least we have made some gains there.

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SYSTEM
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#32 Post by SYSTEM » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:05 pm

Andrew Lee wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:05 pm
- Assuming vevy wishes to reduct all his current entries, do we still want a live CLI site? Is there enough interest to make it viable?
IMO, without vevy's entries the CLI site would be so tiny that it wouldn't be very useful either and it would make the most sense to just pull the plug.
My YouTube channel | Release date of my 13th playlist: August 24, 2020

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Midas
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#33 Post by Midas » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:47 am

I'm a believer.

The small participation is not really statistically relevant as TPFC has always been a low membership, low engagement kind of community.

My take is that if we don't throw away everything that has already been done -- just notice the huge amount of attention bandwidth it has consumed here at the forums in the recent past -- with public access incrementing the general focus (TPFC comes near the top in most freeware related web searches) then over time it has the potential to become a fundamental resource.

Let's just not decide in haste...

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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#34 Post by TP109 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:14 pm

Midas wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:47 am
Let's just not decide in haste...
Agree. I favor the incremental approach, but I don't think the only alternative to that is to pull the plug either.

billon
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#35 Post by billon » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:04 pm

Andrew Lee wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:05 pm
First, the numbers. I did a quick check of the CLI database, and overwhelmingly the entries were vevy's contribution. There were very few other contributors:

- achadwick 1
- Achille 1
- Hydaral 1
- I am Baas 2
- Midas 1
- ozok 1
- Ruby 2
- stahlworks 1
- SYSTEM 3
- TP109 1
That just names of users. who first ever mentioned named utility in the forum, not the direct entries' submitters/creators, mostly edited by me in the first days of CLI DB, except 3 SYSTEM's entries, who submitted and created them by himself.
So without vevy-created entries there are only will be 3 SYSTEM's in the whole CLI DB.

vevy wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:20 am
There is not much I can do then
That's all? So much noise and hassle and nothing in the end? No filters - no DB? I don't even know :roll:

vevy
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#36 Post by vevy » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:20 pm

Andrew Lee wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:05 pm
[...] Thanks. Please note that I do admire the passion you have for your vision. Although we ended up having very different opinions on which direction to go, I appreciate that our debate was always level-headed and civil [...]
Thank you.
Anyway, let me summarize the situation (do correct me if I have misunderstood anything). The vision you have is a comprehensive database of CLI tools that can be sliced-and-diced by a large number of filters (I consider badges and use cases to be a form of filter).
Yes. Maybe not "large", but certainly not just a couple.
Although that vision is nice, I consider it impractical and not very useful. What I think would be more useful would be a form of what we have currently for the main DB, with minor changes to deal with the nature of CLI tools.
The "pool" to curate from is too widespread in my opinion that you may need to pull it into one place first. But 🤷‍♂️
I think the gulf between the two destinations is simply too wide to be bridged, so the most obvious outcome facing us is to terminate the experiment.
Up to you.
First, the numbers.
I think there are some more that have my username but I hadn't got around to put the right "suggested by".
- vevy, what is your preference in terms of your database entries? From your previous comments, I think it is unlikely that you want any form of the database to go live at this stage, since it will fall far short of your ideals. Is that right?
I wouldn't recommend it in the current form, since it is missing many tools every casual onlooker would expect to see, which may give a bad impression.
- Assuming vevy wishes to reduct all his current entries, ...
I don't 🙂. Feel free to use them.
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
Support easy-to-do filters and badges!

vevy
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#37 Post by vevy » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:29 pm

Midas wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:47 am
I'm a believer.
:!:
The small participation is not really statistically relevant as TPFC has always been a low membership, low engagement kind of community.
:!: :!:
My take is that if we don't throw away everything that has already been done -- just notice the huge amount of attention bandwidth it has consumed here at the forums in the recent past -- with public access incrementing the general focus (TPFC comes near the top in most freeware related web searches) then over time it has the potential to become a fundamental resource.
:!: :!: :!:

Where was Gondor when the Westfold fell?! 😉
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
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vevy
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#38 Post by vevy » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:31 pm

TP109 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:14 pm
Agree. I favor the incremental approach...
Towards which end?
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
Support easy-to-do filters and badges!

vevy
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#39 Post by vevy » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:43 pm

billon wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:04 pm
vevy wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:20 am
There is not much I can do then
That's all? So much noise and hassle and nothing in the end? No filters - no DB? I don't even know :roll:
I can't arm-twist Andrew into being convinced, can I?

I don't think it is that much about the effort* as it is that he personally doesn't fancy the finished product.

In the end, it is his site. If he decides to give me a shot, I am game. If not, then he doesn't get a mention in my Fields-Nobel-Pulitzer-Oscar speech!

-----------------------
(*) Many of these "filters" are either already in-place (like open-source), easy to duplicate from existing ones, or easy to do anew (like make badges clickable).
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
Support easy-to-do filters and badges!

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Andrew Lee
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#40 Post by Andrew Lee » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:08 pm

Look guys, I certainly won't make any rushed decision.

I will let this simmer for awhile, and collectively review what comes out of it.
vevy wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:43 pm
(*) Many of these "filters" are either already in-place (like open-source), easy to duplicate from existing ones, or easy to do anew (like make badges clickable).
Sorry, I cannot resist replying to this :D. There's a difference between what _can_ be done, versus what _should_ be done. Otherwise, we would all end up with a hundred buttons on our microwaves (not that some cheaper models haven't tried)!

vevy
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#41 Post by vevy » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:41 pm

Andrew Lee wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:08 pm
Sorry, I cannot resist replying to this :D. There's a difference between what _can_ be done, versus what _should_ be done. Otherwise, we would all end up with a hundred buttons on our microwaves (not that some cheaper models haven't tried)!
I'd respond to that and give many famous examples of advanced filters from all over the internet, in both tech and general sites, but why bother if it is just gonna be brushed aside as "unconvincing"? :|
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
Support easy-to-do filters and badges!

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Midas
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#42 Post by Midas » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:30 am

vevy wrote: Where was Gondor when the Westfold fell?! 😉

Defending Rohan, apparently... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

In my defense, let it be known that I created very few entries in the regular database as well -- I'm much more of a forum dweller.

vevy
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#43 Post by vevy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:39 am

Midas wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:30 am
vevy wrote: Where was Gondor when the Westfold fell?! 😉

Defending Rohan, apparently... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

In my defense, let it be known that I created very few entries in the regular database as well -- I'm much more of a forum dweller.
One of the undead. I call upon you to fulfill your oath and support CLI's heir in his hour of need!
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#44 Post by vevy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:30 am

One more vote "for"! Yee-haw! Score one for the bad guys!

score_one.png
score_one.png (122.59 KiB) Viewed 346 times
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
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"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
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Re: Opinion Poll: CLI Database Filters and Future

#45 Post by vevy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:37 am

Three!
Spoiler!   
Image
3.gif
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
Support easy-to-do filters and badges!

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