CLI Database Discussions

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vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#316 Post by vevy » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:57 pm

I think we better discuss whether allowing filters is beneficial before we discuss exact application.

The above mock-up is very rough.
  • It doesn't contain e.g. filter by size, license, etc.
  • It could look very different. For example, click to show filters.
Andrew asked for feedback and I concur.

Everyone?
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
Support easy-to-do filters and badges!

freakazoid
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#317 Post by freakazoid » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:36 am

Andrew Lee wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:10 pm
Care to elaborate? What you are describing doesn't seem like what vevy is aiming for at all.
Yeah, you're right. vevy's filters were for search results; I was thinking about the actual search page. But I can see how filtering search results by category would be useful.
is it stealth? ;)

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Andrew Lee
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#318 Post by Andrew Lee » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:01 pm

vevy wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:57 pm
[*]It could look very different. For example, click to show filters.
There are only 2 filters (platform, license) in the example. I am simply wary of having a mess of filters cluttering the detailed search page. In fact, I think what we have now is near the limits of my tolerance. :D If we want to add new filters, we should remove some existing ones.

vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#319 Post by vevy » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:13 pm

Andrew Lee wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:01 pm
There are only 2 filters (platform, license) in the example. I am simply wary of having a mess of filters cluttering the detailed search page. In fact, I think what we have now is near the limits of my tolerance. :D If we want to add new filters, we should remove some existing ones.
Oooh! Pulling rank, are we? Well I have to go over your head then! 😛

Umm... Who do you report to?

But seriously, there are ways around this. For example, request #64 (text filters: e.g. mp3 license=foss maxsize=1M cat=14,38)

Also, the detailed search should have various options. I mean, that is kinda the point!
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
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vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#320 Post by vevy » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:18 am

Re-organized the first post:
  • Moved the old first post [2020-10-20] to the resources thread.
  • Moved some unneeded/finished requests to the resources thread.
  • Resorted request by field.
  • Zero-padded requests 1-9.
  • Italicized postponed requests.
Added some requests (until #83)
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
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vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#321 Post by vevy » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:22 pm

Is it possible for you to take a look at the first post, Andrew?

Thanks!
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
Support easy-to-do filters and badges!

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Andrew Lee
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#322 Post by Andrew Lee » Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:55 pm

vevy wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:22 pm
Is it possible for you to take a look at the first post, Andrew?

Thanks!
Just did. Not sure what you wanted me to look at though. I thought we are still waiting for feedback about our next move?

vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#323 Post by vevy » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:39 pm

Andrew Lee wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:55 pm
vevy wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:22 pm
Is it possible for you to take a look at the first post, Andrew?

Thanks!
Just did. Not sure what you wanted me to look at though. I thought we are still waiting for feedback about our next move?
It seems to me there is a desire for a CLI site. And the voting for filters is improving! :wink:

I am mostly talking about little fixes and small things.

I think you would agree that it serves no one to leave a few things dysfunctional while we "wait", when they can probably be easily improved.

For example, we have child entries but no way to assign them as subcommands (which is, incidentally, the one filter that SYSTEM kinda liked). If we are not going to do child entries, it won't matter much if they were fixed before they are disabled or removed. Also, the feature would be properly working for people here to make an informed opinion.

Same thing with fixing the issue with use cases, or even adding a developer field, etc.

I hope you understand :) .
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
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Andrew Lee
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#324 Post by Andrew Lee » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:32 pm

Sorry man, haven't seen anything so far that'd make me change my mind.

I think we should just open the CLI site, warts and all,and wait for real user feedback.

Let it grow organically.

vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#325 Post by vevy » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:38 pm

What would?

You wouldn't even fix a simple CSS misalignment even with the solution provided in one line!

One of the main aspects (that we are supposed to wait for feedback on!) has a major issue: Assign a use case to a tool and it won't show!!

Can you imagine a situation in your mind where you are convinced with something? You were fairly receptive at some point and now...

The time you spent arguing against it would have been enough to fix most of these small issues and requests! And please don't say, "it is not worth doing". If we are going to "see user feedback", then there is some worth in fixing the issues, doing the easy improvements!


I know I sound frustrated because I am! Should I even try to get others onboard when you seem intent to axe it regardless?

😐
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
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vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#326 Post by vevy » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:35 pm

To all the users interested in the CLI database.


I have found once and again amazing CLI tools spread all over the web. A lot of them I didn't find by looking through an article or a directory. I found them by manually searching deep and following link after link after link.

Even with many tools that I considered known or old, it turned out that they are very dependable or have unique features that can save a lot of time and effort.

This is why I want to include all the tools that serve a function, because I don't know which one will work for you or me for a given task under certain conditions.

--------------------------------------------------------

I wanted to share my effort with everyone. I wanted to gather all these tools in one place where a user can easily search and study them and find the tools they want or need.

But dumping hundreds or even thousands of tools without a minimum of search parameters or "filters" that let a user easily include/exclude the type of tool they want will make this a difficult task (see here if you want more information). The value of the database will be significantly less. Pretty much any non-trivial database on the internet has a non-trivial filtering system.

--------------------------------------------------------

Andrew has been kind enough and patient enough with me as we together built the basic structure for this database. He volunteered time and effort just like I did. But lately, he has been very reluctant to do even minimal fixes/improvements. He says that he doesn't approach search in the way I am describing, which is very fair. Everyone works in a different way. He says that there needs to be some interest in this project for him to consider any effort spent on it worthwhile and not wasted.

--------------------------------------------------------
I have been working on this project for close to a year. I spent probably hundreds of hours on it. I am not saying it has to be done exactly as I see it and 100% perfect. Nothing will ever be perfect, and if I can get to 80-90% of what I want I'd be very happy. I also try to provide different alternatives for how something can be done, and try to choose the less effort-requiring on the long run.

So now I ask you. If you want to see a database in our site gathering all the CLI tools without a central home into one place where you can find hidden gems as well as other working alternatives, please let it be known and don't keep your interest to yourself, because otherwise, it may seem that nobody cares about this project and it will die.

Thank you

-----------
Edit: I created a simple two-option poll. If you wish (or don't wish) to see a CLI database, vote accordingly. Thank you for reading and hopefully supporting.
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
Support easy-to-do filters and badges!

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webfork
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#327 Post by webfork » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:08 pm

vevy wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:35 pm
If you want to see a database in our site gathering all the CLI tools without a central home into one place where you can find hidden gems as well as other working alternatives, please let it be known and don't keep your interest to yourself, because otherwise, it may seem that nobody cares about this project and it will die.
It should be stated for casual visitors that nobody's getting paid to do this, so what anyone does here is entirely up to their good graces. Andrew didn't just create this place, he's been actively supporting it for over a decade now. vevy has also put together a ton of great info and resources. This is just a dispute about next steps, not about the contributions of both people.

I've discussed this off-thread at some length so I'm going to just quickly summarize my overall feelings about this: of course I'm interested in seeing a big, cool, interesting CLI database. I can't speak to our current user base, as this site has been focused on graphical interfaces for it's history, but I definitely think what's been described would have immense draw. I hope both parties can find a way to move forward and keep things going -- if not, I really appreciate their involvement on a site that's done great things for freeware developers and users.

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SYSTEM
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#328 Post by SYSTEM » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:53 pm

vevy wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:38 pm
Can you imagine a situation in your mind where you are convinced with something? You were fairly receptive at some point and now...
That's way too mean.

You realize you have been literally the only one pushing for an extremely high number of features, filters and stuff? The reason you aren't convincing Andrew is because pretty much no one here considers all these features to be worth the effort. I don't find Andrew an exceptionally stubborn individual.
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vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#329 Post by vevy » Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:00 pm

webfork wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:08 pm
It should be stated for casual visitors that nobody's getting paid to do this, so what anyone does here is entirely up to their good graces. Andrew didn't just create this place, he's been actively supporting it for over a decade now.
Seconded and acknowledged.
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
Support easy-to-do filters and badges!

vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#330 Post by vevy » Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:22 pm

SYSTEM wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:53 pm
vevy wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:38 pm
Can you imagine a situation in your mind where you are convinced with something? You were fairly receptive at some point and now...
That's way too mean.
I didn't mean that in a mean way at all. I meant: can you visualize a scenario in your mind where the sequence of events will lead you to say: "Hmm, perhaps this filters idea is worth doing after all."?

Because if he decides now that: "Yes, there is a chance I can think of: for example, 10 members of this site saying they are in favor of it", things will be different than if he said: "no chance whatsoever!".

I think you took "something" as "You can't be convinced with anything!" I meant: Is there "something" that can change your mind that I can then act towards?" The question was not rhetorical! :)
You realize you have been literally the only one pushing for an extremely high number of features, filters and stuff?

I do realize that (although many of these requests are just ideas that need to be written down than requests for active implementation. They are marked "p" for postponed or give a low priority "1"). It is not a small idea and it has multiple facets. I am not taking him for granted despite my frustration, and I do appreciate what he does generally and for the CLI DB.
The reason you aren't convincing Andrew is because pretty much no one here considers all these features to be worth the effort. I don't find Andrew an exceptionally stubborn individual.
As I touched on above, some of the fixes/changes are very small. I have been trying to explain my ideas and let others see what excites me about them so that there would be enough interest to motivate him to help on the DB, but it is tough to continue if there is no response even with the little things. :sigh:
"Is there a Windows-included tool for this task?"
"I only want open-source tools"
"I want a tool that is still actively developed"
"So many to choose from!"
and many more!
Support easy-to-do filters and badges!

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