Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

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Midas
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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#46 Post by Midas »

Marc1 wrote: Signal's use is not limited to just private messaging, as it can also be used for group chats and voice/video calls.
As can Telegram, BTW... :|

On a side-note, Android custom ROM development scene has massively abandoned XDA-Developers forums for Telegram channels these days.

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Andrew Lee
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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#47 Post by Andrew Lee »

Midas wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:32 am On a side-note, Android custom ROM development scene has massively abandoned XDA-Developers forums for Telegram channels these days.
That's interesting.. any idea why? I still mostly rely on XDA when I need a custom ROM for my old phones.

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Midas
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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#48 Post by Midas »

Andrew Lee wrote: Any idea why? I still mostly rely on XDA when I need a custom ROM for my old phones.
As did I since the first Samsung Galaxy, my first 'smartphone' -- and I have vocally opposed the move in several instances because, although I've been a Telegram user for almost a decade now, I really believe it's very ill suited for this particular purpose -- but, alas, I am no developer...

Although I have no concrete evidence, and still think the bigger US-centric brands like Samsung, Motorola and Pixel are hardly affected, I seems to me the trade wars with China and Russia have played no small part (loads of custom ROM devs are native of the Eastern hemisphere, namely from Russia, India, and Turkiye).

My last 3 'smartphones' (two of which inglorious died before their time, by falling and drowning, respectively :shock:) were all by Xiaomi, on account of their unbeatable feature/price ratios, and most news and releases hit Telegram first and lots don't even reach XDA-Devs anymore -- XDA-Devs stringent anti-Telegram rules no doubt play a big part here, too.

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Andrew Lee
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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#49 Post by Andrew Lee »

Thanks for the info! I will try to dig deeper when I have the chance.

My whole family has been with Oppo for the past couple of years, and that Chinese company too might be affected by the tension between China and US/Europe:

https://www.androidpolice.com/oppo-euro ... many-hold/

Of course, I am second guessing here because the *official* reason is the patent dispute with Nokia. Doesn't help that their latest Find X6 flagship has been not been offered for the global market for an unusually long time now since its initial release in China, which makes me wonder whether there's some nasty undercurrent below the surface.

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Midas
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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#50 Post by Midas »

Sad state of affairs, if you ask me. As if an all out war and the rise of autocracy globally wasn't more than enough... :cry:
Andrew Lee wrote: latest Find X6 flagship has been not been offered for the global market for an unusually long time now since its initial release in China, which makes me wonder whether there's some nasty undercurrent below the surface.
From past experience, and unless the hardware doesn't fully support your region specs or there wasn't a strong community scene proposing global ROM alternatives, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Chinese model.

I know plenty of online shops doing exactly that and then flashing some non-official 'global' software (e.g., my late Mi Pad 4 tablet, which was never officially sold outside of China but I still got with such amenities -- of course I then flashed my own choice of ROM ASAP...).

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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#51 Post by hatakerandy »

Is the group video calling feature available in Signal? Didn't know it exist.

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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#52 Post by webfork »

hatakerandy wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 1:20 am Is the group video calling feature available in Signal? Didn't know it exist.
Yes and it works well.

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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#53 Post by anna77 »

Shown wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:26 am
hamasaki wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:54 pm Telegram is pretty slick, both with the portable version and the mobile version. Being able to add multiple accounts in the same interface is terrific. Signal is fine though, we use it a lot here in Hong Kong. They've ironed out a few bugs in the last few weeks and it seems more reliable now. Going from FmwhatsappWhatsApp it's an easy transition as Signal is very similar and easier to use. I prefer Telegram though personally.
I hope there is no problem to post my first post here because yesterday when I register I submitted a post in chit chat section of this forum and when I login into forum today my post doesn't not appear where I post it, so I am starting from here.


The big things as I see them:

Signal is always end-to-end encrypted. Telegram isn't unless you use secret chats. Group messages are not encrypted.

Telegram uses proprietary encryption (once enabled). This is considered bad practice by security professionals.

Signal's server code is open source as well as it's app code meaning its entire code base can be peer reviewed and scrutinized for issues. Telegram's server code is closed source and proprietary. Their app code is open.

Signal is entirely non-profit and funded by donations.

Signal stores as little metadata and user info as possible, less than Telegram.
Thank you for sharing this information about Telegram and Signal. It's important to consider the differences in encryption, code transparency, and data handling when choosing a messaging platform.

End-to-end encryption is crucial for ensuring the privacy and security of messages, and it's commendable that Signal offers this feature by default. On the other hand, while Telegram does offer end-to-end encryption in the form of "secret chats," it's important for users to be aware that regular group messages are not encrypted.

The openness of code is also significant. Signal's commitment to open source code allows for peer review and scrutiny, which can help identify and address any potential security vulnerabilities. Telegram, while providing an open-source app code, keeps its server code closed source and proprietary.

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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#54 Post by Emka »

Concerning Telegram and Signal: In my country, Telegram has a reputation for hosting groups of conspiracy theorists and right-wing activists, whereas Signal (alongside Threema) has become a welcome alternative messenger for people who want to avoid WhatsApp (for fear of what happens to their data with Meta overseas).

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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#55 Post by Midas »

anna77 wrote: While Telegram does offer end-to-end encryption in the form of "secret chats," it's important for users to be aware that regular group messages are not encrypted.

The openness of code is also significant. Signal's commitment to open source code allows for peer review and scrutiny, which can help identify and address any potential security vulnerabilities. Telegram, while providing an open-source app code, keeps its server code closed source and proprietary.
That is entirely true.

Another thing to consider, at least for me, is maximum file size transferable with each platform... not sure about Signal but last I looked into it, Telegram gave me 2GB.

Moreover, Telegram FOSS is on F-Droid while Signal is not...

Running a global messenger with tens of millions of users (Signal) or hundreds of millions of users (Telegram) is not cheap.
Telegram is managed and funded by Russian social media billionaire Pavel Durov, and operates from undisclosed locations. In its early years, the messenger became famous as the platform of choice for dissidents and protesters and, unfortunately, for criminals and extremists, all looking to keep their communications out of the reach of the authorities. Despite its lack of end-to-end encryption by default and the fact it holds decryption keys, Telegram says that to access messages it needs keys from different jurisdictions to frustrate any attempts by law enforcement to access content. This gives a good insight into the original philosophy behind Telegram.
Signal was founded by a security researcher who uses the name Moxie Marlinspike for his public profile. Until 2018, the platform was fairly niche and unless you worked in some form of security field, it was unlikely to be found on your phone. But then Brian Acton, one of WhatsApp’s founders, left Facebook and ploughed $50 million into Signal to help take it mainstream. Prior to Acton’s involvement, Signal was fairly clunky to use, you really needed to want its enhanced security.

Concerning prior history, Pavel Durov was the founder of Russian Facebook analogue VKontakte, which he sold before creating Telegram; when his government pushed for background access to Telegram servers, it's public knowledge that he exiled himself in place of giving in, first to Germany, then to Dubai.

All along, he's been pretty forthcoming with his steering of the platform and quite good at giving feedback to its users.

Regarding Signal, IMHO having sold to Facebook once, I wouldn't be surprised if Moxie Marlinspike would do it again -- but that's just my stance...

Further reading:

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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#56 Post by Midas »

This just in, concerning Signal finances...
Signal has taken a bold step in transparency by unveiling the operational expenses of its messenger service, a move aimed at safeguarding user privacy. In a recent blog post, the Signal Foundation, responsible for managing Signal, detailed the operating costs for the first time, disclosing approximately $40 million for the current year, with projections reaching $50 million by 2025.

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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#57 Post by Midas »

Another Signal-related news item, as reported by Pavel Durov, Telegram's CEO (verbatim):
🤫 A story shared (https://x.com/jack/status/1787895769183268948) by Jack Dorsey, the founder of Twitter, uncovered that the current leaders of Signal, an allegedly “secure” messaging app, are activists used by the US state department (https://www.city-journal.org/article/si ... er-problem) for regime change abroad 🥷

🥸 The US government spent $3M to build Signal’s encryption, and today the exact same encryption is implemented in WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Google Messages and even Skype. It looks almost as if big tech in the US is not allowed to build its own encryption protocols that would be independent of government interference 🐕‍🦺

🕵️‍♂️ An alarming number of important people I’ve spoken to remarked that their “private” Signal messages had been exploited against them in US courts or media. But whenever somebody raises doubt about their encryption, Signal’s typical response is “we are open source so anyone can verify that everything is all right”. That, however, is a trick 🤡

🕵️‍♂️ Unlike Telegram, Signal doesn’t allow researchers to make sure that their GitHub code is the same code that is used in the Signal app run on users’ iPhones. Signal refused to add reproducible builds (https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/641) for iOS, closing a GitHub request from the community. And WhatsApp doesn’t even publish the code of its apps, so all their talk about “privacy” is an even more obvious circus trick 💤

🛡 Telegram is the only massively popular messaging service that allows everyone to make sure (https://core.telegram.org/reproducible-builds) that all of its apps indeed use the same open source code that is published on Github. For the past ten years, Telegram Secret Chats have remained the only popular method of communication that is verifiably private 💪

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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#58 Post by Emka »

Some serious allegations lack substantiated proof in the linked sources or are not backed by sources at all: government funding, encryption origin, exploitation in court. I would be careful, this has become an almost political matter prone to disinformation.

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Re: Signal - cross-platform secure messaging (64-bit only)

#59 Post by Midas »

I agree.

But those allegations are far from unbelievable, especially coming from where they come... and too much has happened over the years to allow any side's claims to be taken purely on good faith. For a case in point in another quadrant, just consider the impending TikTok ban.

These are juggernauts at play we're watching -- whenever someone has a reach of over half a billion potential users, all bets are off -- and unfortunately, this is the dominant tone of such platform wars.

All I can say is that with almost a decade of using his product, my appraisal is the software's been kept pretty unwaveringly aligned with its user oriented allegiance, as declared -- to this day, I'm not aware of any single breach...

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