Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

Discuss anything related to command line tools here.
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Are you interested in seeing a CLI database in TPFC?

Yes, I am.
10
91%
No, I am not.
1
9%
 
Total votes: 11

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vevy
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Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#1 Post by vevy » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:43 pm

This is as simple of a request as I can make of you. A simple show of interest.

If you want to see a CLI database, vote yes. Otherwise, vote no.

Thank you
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thepiney
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#2 Post by thepiney » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:40 am

I have seen a lot of discussion going on about the CLI database for some time and I would like to see it live. That being said, I've only rarely added input because I'm not sure how much use it will get. It seems like a wasted effort if nothing is ever to come of it but I wonder if more than a few of the regulars and possibly an occasional guest user will even check it out.

I've noticed of late that some of the discussion has turned a bit more argumentative at times. My memory has gone a bit fuzzy over the years and can't remember a lot of what I've read so I'll just leave it at this --> If you go with the site/section as it is now, you can see if enough interest is there, perhaps that can determine if further changes are warranted.

juverax
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#3 Post by juverax » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:31 am

YES: a CLI database would be a fantastic resource.
I totally support the project.

TP109
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#4 Post by TP109 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:13 am

Yes, I support the inclusion of a CLI database.

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Andrew Lee
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#5 Post by Andrew Lee » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:32 pm

thepiney wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:40 am
If you go with the site/section as it is now, you can see if enough interest is there, perhaps that can determine if further changes are warranted.
I second that. Thank you!

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vevy
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#6 Post by vevy » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:47 pm

Thank you guys for your support! @juverax @TP109 @thepiney and to everyone who voted.

If someone supports a CLI database and hasn't voted, please do vote. Your support means a lot to me and to the chances of this project.


@thepiney

Please see my response here, but in short, it doesn't have to be perfect first before it is live, but doing it too early would probably do it a disservice.

The project is still young, guys. Have patience! :D
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Midas
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#7 Post by Midas » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:13 am

I voted yay.

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Cornflower
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#8 Post by Cornflower » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:53 am

I voted yes, but I could go either way, because....

I use a lot of CLIs, and some I no longer know where they came from (I haven't submitted much because either others have done so or I have not looked up the original source)
A database would be nice, but ***BUT***

What has really been great for me is that since this discussion has gone on, people have submitted to [Quick Submissions: Found a new CLI tool but no time for a thread? Post it here!](viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25029). and other submissions. Having a submissions forum and being able to search or browse within it is the real gem for me.

Therefore, my edited vote is: 1) the simpler the database, just to get one up, the better, and let it evolve over time. As it evolves, ask the submitter for any additional fields that are created but did not exist when the submitter first submitted.

and 2), I will try to look up and submit my CLIs into the forum over the next weeks as I find time to verify them.

bitcoin
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#9 Post by bitcoin » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:55 am

absolutely

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vevy
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#10 Post by vevy » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:32 am

Thanks for voting, guys.

I raised a few points here about why I think we should wait a bit before we are public.

In short, think of someone asking a question on StackOverflow:
Is there a command line tool to convert Excel to CSV?
I want someone to be able to answer:
Sure, this link has a list of these tools. I recommend tool X.
Then the asker will go to the link and say, "Wow. That's a really good resource. Bookmarked!"

Now he wouldn't say anything because the answerer wouldn't even link to us due to our very limited selection!


You might say, well you can't wait till the database is perfect because that's unrealistic.

That's true. If there are 10 tools total for that and we have 7, that's good and "live-worthy". But currently we have 1 or 2!

The site is already live. It is just not public.

If you are reading this, you can go here (login instructions here) and use the database to your heart's content!


What's keeping me from adding all the tools I have is that there are some structural issues with the database that, if ignored now, will cause the needed effort to be much more than it should. I would have to go back and edit each entry when each change is made.

If we (Andrew) can do the easy changes now, it will make the process much easier!
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Specular
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#11 Post by Specular » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:34 am

I think having command-line programs as part of how the site has discussed and submitted entries historically is useful since they can be just as handy as GUI-based programs though I'm personally not fond of the goal of putting every CLI program one can find in a database here just for comprehensiveness' sake, mainly as part of what makes the site attractive is the users over time sifting through programs to find those that fit qualitative criteria (eg: portability, stealth, usefulness, up-to-dateness). Ie: curation.

Also not every CLI program has portable dependancies (of those that require dependancies) which itself means such a DB couldn't be comprehensive, if there is indeed a portability criteria to the entries.

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vevy
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Re: Poll: This determines whether there would be a CLI database at all

#12 Post by vevy » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:15 am

@Specular Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Specular wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:34 am
Ie: curation.
Think of it this way: when you don't find a tool you like on TPFC, you know where to go to look for non-portable tools: MajorGeeks, Softpedia, CNET, etc.

With CLI tools, there is no such place yet! This is why I want to include the pool from which we can pick and choose.

Does this mean no curation? Definitely not! There are many ways to do curation next to or on top of a comprehensive database.

For example:
  • Better default sorting can give you the best of both worlds. Think of Google results. They give you 1000 accessible results for your search, even though >90% of searches are probably satisfied in the first 3-4 results.
  • Even if you want only curated results (e.g. above certain vote threshold) to show, you can easily do that (by default or by yourself). You can even have something like alternativeto.net or many other sites:
    Only showing best voted tools. Click here to show all results.
    which simply turns the curated filter (e.g. N. of votes) to off.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Specular wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:34 am
Also not every CLI program has portable dependancies (of those that require dependancies) which itself means such a DB couldn't be comprehensive, if there is indeed a portability criteria to the entries.
I mentioned that in the FAQ prototype.
vevy wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:41 am
TLDR: Not a criterion, but is true anyway for many (probably most) tools.

Long Version:
  • Many, or perhaps most, CLI tools don't store settings in the first place. There are multiple reasons that could explain this:
    [...]
  • For the tools that do make use of option files, many don't create the file by default, they simply allow the user to store needed options (usually the same options that can be sent through the command line), and then refer the tool to that file through a command line option. For example, Wget or rxrepl.
  • As there is no other centralized directory for CLI tools available for Windows, and since you can take your CLI tools and batch files with you and have things happily work pretty much the same as in your computer, I think it would be more helpful to be as complete as possible while marking those tools that don't are not very portable.
So, as long as portability information (or any other type of information) is present, you can curate your own version of the DB with a few clicks or a bookmarked link!
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