CLI Database Discussions

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vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#346 Post by vevy » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:10 am

There is a problem with current upvote/downvote system.

Upvoting or "This app rocks!" doesn't cover a lot of tools that are expected to be in a CLI database.

UnxUtils doesn't rock! but a lot of users would expect to find it. It's "standard".

To address this, we may:
  • Keep the sorting of ">10 points" shown above "private". Meaning, show private by default but below upvoted ones.
  • Make search rt=a (show all) by default.
  • Find a way to hide any problematic app (buggy, etc). Maybe create an account with a "super dislike" of -20 points.
  • Add a button at the top of listings/search results that says "Some apps are hidden. Click to show all"
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SYSTEM
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#347 Post by SYSTEM » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:44 am

vevy wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:10 am
There is a problem with current upvote/downvote system.

Upvoting or "This app rocks!" doesn't cover a lot of tools that are expected to be in a CLI database.

UnxUtils doesn't rock! but a lot of users would expect to find it. It's "standard".

To address this, we may:
  • Keep the sorting of ">10 points" shown above "private". Meaning, show private by default but below upvoted ones.
  • Make search rt=a (show all) by default.
  • Find a way to hide any problematic app (buggy, etc). Maybe create an account with a "super dislike" of -20 points.
  • Add a button at the top of listings/search results that says "Some apps are hidden. Click to show all"
Yeah, I agree that use of the vote system currently makes the CLI database way too small.

I think showing all entries by default and having a way to hide problematic apps (especially spam) would be a good way to address the problem.
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Andrew Lee
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#348 Post by Andrew Lee » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:47 pm

OK, I have made "Show all" the default, so public entries will appear before private entries.

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vevy
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#349 Post by vevy » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:52 pm

Not working :?
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Andrew Lee
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#350 Post by Andrew Lee » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:36 pm

Figure out what's wrong. Fixed.

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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#351 Post by lintalist » Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:40 am

The "popular titles" links on the right don't work as the a href is lacking https part (so link becomes cli.portable..../cli.portable)

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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#352 Post by Andrew Lee » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:05 pm

lintalist wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:40 am
The "popular titles" links on the right don't work as the a href is lacking https part (so link becomes cli.portable..../cli.portable)
Fixed!

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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#353 Post by vevy » Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:54 am

https://cli.portablefreeware.com/index. ... ce+in+text

[regex replace in text] shouldn't be a match for [replace in text].
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#354 Post by Andrew Lee » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:34 pm

vevy wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:54 am
https://cli.portablefreeware.com/index. ... ce+in+text

[regex replace in text] shouldn't be a match for [replace in text].
Fixed.

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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#355 Post by vevy » Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:03 pm

lintalist wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:42 am
Just some thoughts:

Not sure about the "package" - wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_package - states "... that provides certain functionality as part of a larger system" and I think that rings more true - when I think of package, I think of additional "things" I can install to make my "main thing" work better e.g. a library for python that allows you to parse html - I don't think the tag is needed here as collection has more meaning (a collection of tools) - perhaps it needs to be replaced/renamed by something else such as "single binary" as that may help people to decide e.g. a single executable youtube-dl.exe is easier to "manage" as a download manager which relies on dozens of files to make it work.
I get what you are saying. I based the usage on things like: package manager (including Windows ones like chocolatey, scoop, winget, etc). Also on the end-user-oriented usage of the term in Linux distros.

A "package" in the current usage means the unit release by the developer:
  • It can be an archive
  • It can be an installer
  • It can be a single binary
  • It can be a binary with external dependencies or other files.
  • It can be a single binary (busybox-w32) or multiple (FFmpeg).
The primary point of "package" is that to denote to the end-user easily what is a downloadable vs what is a part of a downloadable.

I am yet to find an easily-understandable alternative that covers these. I tried!
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#356 Post by lintalist » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:19 am

Some further thoughts:

But if nearly everything gets the same label I think it looses it's meaning or value - just like adding a "software" label to all programs, while that is true, it is not very helpful to the user and the label doesn't stand out.

An alternative might be to swap the tags around. I don't think pandoc, youtube-dl and others are a "package" - they are just programs you can use to do something - either consisting of one or more other files needed to make it work and you need to figure out how to download, install and use them by reading the documentation - either here on TPFC or on the programs website. A bit more work is to be expected when dealing with CLI.

Example:

Yori or ImageMagick are a "collection" but all the programs that come with them are "part of" the collection are a "package". You can't download and use WinPos as an individual program to move windows as you need to do get something else first like installing Yori or extracting a specific file from an installer/zip like convert.exe from ImageMagick.

So having a "part of" or "package" label with WinPos might be more meaningful to someone searching and browsing the CLI section who is trying to find a solution for: I'm looking for a tool to move windows. The answers could be:

NirCmd - not a package: yes - I can download and use that directly (one program I can call from my batch file or other situation) - easy to update probably by downloading a new version.

WinPos - package: no - I can't because I would need to install Yori first, copy the WinPos program and only after that use it just to be able to move a window to automate my workflow. And when there is an update do it again.

Or
- omit "package" and introduce a label to indicate it is "not a standalone application you can use directly"
- avoid individual entries for "WinPos" et al all together (I know that is discussed already, I don't have an opinion on it)

But in the end the fact an entry is there is probably more helpful than having any sort of labels.

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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#357 Post by vevy » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:17 pm

@lintalist

Interesting take. I view "tool" as the basic unit. Thus, a "package" would need the label. If we reverse it like you say (everything is a downloadable unit/package unless labelled otherwise), how would you do it? It is hard to do in negative. What would label be like? "not package"? 🤔

lintalist wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:19 am
So having a "part of" or "package" label with WinPos might be more meaningful to someone searching and browsing the CLI section who is trying to find a solution for
"Part of" has been suggested (#33). I wish Andrew would allow more testing of ideas to see what works.
- avoid individual entries for "WinPos" et al all together (I know that is discussed already, I don't have an opinion on it)
It comes to the idea of "allowing easy, systematic finding of alternatives" aka "use cases" in my implementation. If we had only the "parent entries", things would be very messy and difficult to use and maintain. Imagine the use cases of "Yori"!

Note that I added a few "random" use cases to test them. Actual use case system is more organized.

@Andrew, would you please allow me to try out my ideas? If they don't work out, you can undo them. Just don't pre-reject them!
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#358 Post by lintalist » Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:00 am

I'd say youtube-dl, pandoc, pdftk, exiftool, mtr etc shouldn't have a label, and only stuff like WinMove (Yori) or Convert.exe (ImageMagick) should have one, as labels there would have a signal function: gotta pay attention here. youtube-dl just works out of the box, WinMove requires additional work. The description should also be useful of course "program to download videos" and "a collection of programs to process images..." - that will help the user to determine what do try.

Needing to assign labels to all programs also creates extra work for someone.

But again, the entry the most important part I think.

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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#359 Post by vevy » Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:19 am

lintalist wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:00 am
I'd say youtube-dl, pandoc, pdftk, exiftool, mtr etc shouldn't have a label, and only stuff like WinMove (Yori) or Convert.exe (ImageMagick) should have one, as labels there would have a signal function: gotta pay attention here. youtube-dl just works out of the box, WinMove requires additional work. The description should also be useful of course "program to download videos" and "a collection of programs to process images..." - that will help the user to determine what do try.

Needing to assign labels to all programs also creates extra work for someone.

But again, the entry the most important part I think.
The point I did the obvious "tool" label is that:
- some entries (packages) have multiple tools inside that may not warrant individual entries (see a lot of the entries with "Included tools" or "It contains the following tools:".
- These tools should show up if the user filters by "tool".
- It easier to manipulate entries when entries are properly tagged. For example, you suggestion to "flip the badges" would be very easy to do because we know that entries not tagged "packages" are just tools. It is true that this doesn't need a visible badge, only behind the scenes.
Needing to assign labels to all programs also creates extra work for someone.
That's what I am volunteering. :D
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Re: CLI Database Discussions

#360 Post by lintalist » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:29 am

vevy wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:19 am
That's what I am volunteering. :D
:D

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