portableapps.com alternatives?

[garbanzo]

i've noticed some people here are not fans of the wrapper-bound, splash-screen-showing portableapps apps. i share these feelings.

but i've also noticed that for many popular apps (like Firefox, VDub, 7zip) there are no alternative portable versions.

why?

[alanbcohen]

Simply, portable versions do not appear by magic; someone has to code them.
In some cases, there are copyright or trademark issues if you use the original code and make changes (mozilla products). The original author, who generally knows the application best, doesn't always want the application to be portable, as it could cut into their license fees (e.g., Microsoft) or simply didn't care when they coded it. And, no one wanted the app bad enough to go into the code, if it was available, and make changes.

It is a lot easier to code a wrapper that takes care of backing up, cleaning up, and restoring registry entries, created directories, and files. Now, the guys at Portableapps.com went and got trademark deals with mozilla and some other publishers, developed a reusable technique for wrapping applications, and got to market with an increasing number of portable apps. There is nothing to prevent you from doing the same.

Personally, I am not bothered by splash screens; they are the lest offensive form of advertising and let me know that 'something' is happening after I start the app, and before it displays. While you might offer a non-splash version, what other reason would there be for me to change from something that works to a new vendor?

[Ryushi]

i've noticed some people here are not fans of the wrapper-bound, splash-screen-showing portableapps apps. i share these feelings.

but i've also noticed that for many popular apps (like Firefox, VDub, 7zip) there are no alternative portable versions.

why?

Aren't there the Winpenpack.com X-Apps for example as an alternative?

Without changing the source code of non portable apps or putting them into a sandbox/virtual maschine (ThinLoader/Thinstall/VMware ...) there are not that much alternatives to a wrapper which bends system variables or directories or backups and restores windows registry entries for "portabilized" applications.

By the way - using the <APP>portable.ini you can disable the splash screen or adjust other settings of most PortableApps.com-applications. You can exchange the splash images or even change the code of the launchers.

The great advantage of PortableApps (suite) is the possibility to backup all user data, update most of the apps by just rezipping the new version about the old one or restore a complete application suite with saved user data within minutes.

OK, there are some strict guidelines for new official applications and PortableApps is pretty John T. Haller ... aehm ... centric but beyond that what is your exact problem with PA?

Cya Ryushi

[garbanzo]

thanks for the explanations. i guess i'm just used to thinstalled apps where everything is tucked neatly into a single .exe, so when i see one from portableapps that is packaged with all kinds of extra stuff in a dozen folders, i'm put off. i'd much rather drop one file into a folder full of portable apps than add a directory fully of stuff. yes, it's compulsive, i can't help it.

at least now i know that i can disable that awful splash screen...

[Ryushi]

thanks for the explanations. i guess i'm just used to thinstalled apps where everything is tucked neatly into a single .exe, so when i see one from portableapps that is packaged with all kinds of extra stuff in a dozen folders, i'm put off. i'd much rather drop one file into a folder full of portable apps than add a directory fully of stuff. yes, it's compulsive, i can't help it.

at least now i know that i can disable that awful splash screen...

Looking at nearly every non portable application you find several folders, exe-/dll-files and other files and entries. Many are in a sub directory of the "program files" folder, some under "application date" in the "documents and settings" folder, maybe in other places and for sure some (or many) entries in windows registry.

PortableApps-quidelines demand to put all these files and data centralized into special folders (seperating user data/settings from program files) under "<appname>portable". The wrapper take care for backing up, inserting and cleaning up windows registry entries, coping files to expected locations before startup of the application and backing up and cleaning these locations after application shut down.

These happens with NO legal issues (at least with all official PAs) and without cost for users and wrapper-developers. OK - developers pays with invested time and energy

Thinstall on the other side is a commercial sandbox application that put all the changes of the system and all new files during the install process of a non portable application together with the necessary Thinstall files into a kind of executable onefile archive.

I didn't use Thinstall directly (exept the ThinLoader-"Hack") and I don't know the recent exact legal status of this application but I doubt whether thinstalled applications are useable without STRONG legal issue.

Cya Ryushi

[garbanzo]

Looking at nearly every non portable application you find several folders, exe-/dll-files and other files and entries. Many are in a sub directory of the "program files" folder, some under "application date" in the "documents and settings" folder, maybe in other places and for sure some (or many) entries in windows registry.

indeed. this is why i opt for portable apps whenever i can. i like the idea of a modular computing environment, and i do what i can to create one on my machine.

I didn't use Thinstall directly (exept the ThinLoader-"Hack") and I don't know the recent exact legal status of this application but I doubt whether thinstalled applications are useable without STRONG legal issue.

such is life in this electronic age. anyway, what's the harm in thinstalling a freeware app for my own use? i'm harming neither the developers of the app nor the thinapp folks, because i'm not actually distributing anything. neither can demonstrate a financial loss that is a result of my actions. i am of course aware that the legality of this doing this is highly questionable, but perhaps it is the law that is at fault, rather than my actions...

[alanbcohen]

... what's the harm in thinstalling a freeware app for my own use? i'm harming neither the developers of the app nor the thinapp folks, because i'm not actually distributing anything. neither can demonstrate a financial loss that is a result of my actions. i am of course aware that the legality of this doing this is highly questionable, but perhaps it is the law that is at fault, rather than my actions...

The theory behind the illegality of your using thininstalled apps has nothing to do with the apps you use, but everything with the unlicensed use of ThinInstall itself. If you don't buy a ThinInstall license, you don't have a right to use the publisher's intellectual property. It is identical with using a pirate copy of an operating system or an application suite like MSOffice.

[SeanJohnShaffer]

If someone can make launchers, then the issue would be resolved. Make a launcher that just launches the program, no splash screens and whatnot. They would need to be written in NSIS in order to work properly with the PortableApps.com Platform.

[chadross]

If you search the PortableApps.com forum you will find that you can disable the splash screen with an INI file in the PortableApps folder for the launcher.

[garbanzo]

... what's the harm in thinstalling a freeware app for my own use? i'm harming neither the developers of the app nor the thinapp folks, because i'm not actually distributing anything. neither can demonstrate a financial loss that is a result of my actions. i am of course aware that the legality of this doing this is highly questionable, but perhaps it is the law that is at fault, rather than my actions...

The theory behind the illegality of your using thininstalled apps has nothing to do with the apps you use, but everything with the unlicensed use of ThinInstall itself. If you don't buy a ThinInstall license, you don't have a right to use the publisher's intellectual property. It is identical with using a pirate copy of an operating system or an application suite like MSOffice.

umm... yes, i understand. this is precisely what i was objecting to. but really, this isn't the time or place for a discussion of intellectual property rights so i'll just leave it at that.

perhaps if vmware didn't feel the need to charge what amounts to 3/4 of my annual salary for thinapp, and instead chose to make it more accessible to consumers, the issue wouldn't be an issue

[m^(2)]

i've noticed some people here are not fans of the wrapper-bound, splash-screen-showing portableapps apps. i share these feelings.

but i've also noticed that for many popular apps (like Firefox, VDub, 7zip) there are no alternative portable versions.

why?

IIRC VDub and 7zip are portable, but maybe not clean w/out a launcher.
Often the best alternative is the application itself.
Myself, I often modify PA.com launchers to get rid of this useless PAF and splash screens...and shave up to 1.5 second from startup time.

I don't know the recent exact legal status of this application but I doubt whether thinstalled applications are useable without STRONG legal issue.

You're often not allowed to modify programs and Thinstallation violates this constraint.

[Ryushi]

[...]

I don't know the recent exact legal status of this application but I doubt whether thinstalled applications are useable without STRONG legal issue.

You're often not allowed to modify programs and Thinstallation violates this constraint.

I think if you pay the 5k$!!! for a legally licensed ThinApp and then thinstall your legally licensed applications for your own usage then there shouldn't be any problems.
The problems start when you distribute thinstalled applications (whether thinstalled with a legal copy of ThinApp or not).
So for nearly all potencial users thinstalled apps are no alternative to "PortableApps' portable applications"

[m^(2)]

[...]

I don't know the recent exact legal status of this application but I doubt whether thinstalled applications are useable without STRONG legal issue.

You're often not allowed to modify programs and Thinstallation violates this constraint.

I think if you pay the 5k$!!! for a legally licensed ThinApp and then thinstall your legally licensed applications for your own usage then there shouldn't be any problems.
The problems start when you distribute thinstalled applications (whether thinstalled with a legal copy of ThinApp or not).
So for nearly all potencial users thinstalled apps are no alternative to "PortableApps' portable applications"

You're wrong. Sometimes (i.e. with most games) any modification is illegal. Distribution is illegal in more cases...especially that I doubt that most people pay distribution fees to Thinstall, which their license requires.

[garbanzo]

in what way does ThinApp modify programs? it wraps the registry and stuffs it along with all the files into a sandbox, but it doesn't actually alter any of the program's code. the program remains intact.

how is this different than using a portableapps wrapper in terms of legality?

[m^(2)]

in what way does ThinApp modify programs? it wraps the registry and stuffs it along with all the files into a sandbox, but it doesn't actually alter any of the program's code. the program remains intact.

how is this different than using a portableapps wrapper in terms of legality?

1. It packs them into a kind of archive, it's a modification so high that you can't even recognize the original by anything but icon!
2. This is even less popular constraint, but sometimes program's memory can't be altered by 3rd party programs - and Thinstall does in-memory patching in order to do the redirection.