Stop PEStudio Updates

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JohnTHaller
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Stop PEStudio Updates

#1 Post by JohnTHaller » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:08 am

Can we please stop including every single PEStudio update? It's gotten to the point of being absolutely comical. There have been 9 updates so far this month. And this is after updating the last 4 days (every day) of last month. That's 13 updates in 30 days. For a pretty minor app. And the app is still unable to function on Windows 7 x64 (about 1/2 of Windows 7 installs) not responding when opening a file in the app and crashing when you drag an drop a file onto the interface.

13 updates in 30 days for a minor app that doesn't work for about 1 in 10 users.
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I am Baas
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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#2 Post by I am Baas » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:17 pm

JohnTHaller wrote:Can we please stop including every single PEStudio update? It's gotten to the point of being absolutely comical. There have been 9 updates so far this month. And this is after updating the last 4 days (every day) of last month. That's 13 updates in 30 days. For a pretty minor app. And the app is still unable to function on Windows 7 x64 (about 1/2 of Windows 7 installs) not responding when opening a file in the app and crashing when you drag an drop a file onto the interface.

13 updates in 30 days for a minor app that doesn't work for about 1 in 10 users.
[sarcasm] Oh yes, great suggestion but don't forget to tell us when we can update PEStudio's database entry again. Also, maybe from now on we should only submit and update Portableapps.com software here at TPFC? How's that for an idea? [/sarcasm]

I understand your need to thrash PEStudio, but you've done it already elsewhere on this forum. No need to start a new thread... vent your frustrations here but also consider helping the author to fix the issues you have with Win 7.

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JohnTHaller
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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#3 Post by JohnTHaller » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:44 pm

I understand your need to thrash PortableApps.com, but this is independent of that. :-P Showing an app over and over in the updated app list and RSS feed makes those lists much less useful if a given app always appears. It's that much less room for other updated apps to show and less functional to have to see a single app there all the time, making it more likely for someone to unsubscribe. "Oh new post from PFC in Google Reader. Oh, it's just PEStudio... again." I've got nothing against the app itself, just the idea that we need to see an update for it every other day.
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-.-
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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#4 Post by -.- » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:54 pm

i dont like how it updates so much but i dont mind it either :S

I mean portablefreeware.com is an index of programs so being selective of which updates should be listed is too much for my liking. I rather see this updated often and know others are updated than to see site starting to only update major builds like 1.0 to 2.0 and skip 1.1,1.2,etc

seems like updating issue should be directed to developer more than just a site that indexes things

lyx
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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#5 Post by lyx » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:43 pm

-.- wrote:i dont like how it updates so much but i dont mind it either :S

I mean portablefreeware.com is an index of programs so being selective of which updates should be listed is too much for my liking. I rather see this updated often and know others are updated than to see site starting to only update major builds like 1.0 to 2.0 and skip 1.1,1.2,etc

seems like updating issue should be directed to developer more than just a site that indexes things
Err, no, i think you got that totally wrong.

A developer can update as much as he wants, and for reasons that have nothing to do with portablefreeware.com. Who are we to impose our dogma on how updates should happen on the developers themselves? This is nuts.

John described the situation correctly (though, he imo makes a mistake in proposing to make an exception for a specific app): The frontpage and the RSS feed is there to tell you "news". Now, when an application updates constantly, and we on the frontpage/rss announce these "news" every 4 days, then this isn't "news" anymore - its like we reserve space for a "pinned" advertisement for a specific app.

And as i said, it isn't even the developers "fault" - it's his choice how to schedule updates, and if he wants to not do "releases", but instead constant snapshots, then thats his decision, and OUR fault that we are unable to handle this (what about applications that do no releases at all, and instead have nightly builds? How do you deal with that?).

That in this case, there are flaws about the app which do not seem to get enough attention, is irrelevant to the root issue: Even if he'd care about flaws instantly, and every 4 days release a new solid stable snapshot with new features, WE'D STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.

A problem that is not specific to PEStudio - it may currently trigger it, but it could happen with any other application. Thus, in this regard i agree with Baas: This is a general issue about how portablefreeware.com currently handles updates, not a PEStudio-specific issue.

lajjal
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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#6 Post by lajjal » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:49 pm

PEStudio is abuse bordering on spam. If someone needs help writing their app they can do it in the forum.

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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#7 Post by lyx » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:56 pm

lajjal wrote:PEStudio is abuse bordering on spam. If someone needs help writing their app they can do it in the forum.
PEStudio is not spamming portableapps - portableapps is spamming itself with PEStudio - big difference.

Again: Lets say i create an application, and decide to not do releases, and instead have an automatic "nightly builds" system. Then, lets say a fan of my application reports the new version every 2 days to portablefreeware.com - then am i, the developer, spamming portablefreeware.com? Or is it the fan's fault? Even if you say "the fan is at fault", the big question is: Why is this even possible? If something is not supposed to happen in a system, then why does the system accept it?

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SYSTEM
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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#8 Post by SYSTEM » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:59 pm

The improvement I have suggested would have kept the latest four updates from pushing PeStudio to the front page and feed.

Does someone die if he/she doesn't get every version of PeStudio immediately? :roll: If yes, why not use WebVersions?

Based on how frequently PeStudio has updated all the time it's been listed, I can bet it will update at least once in November. Does anyone want to bet it won't?

In the "worst" case, the next update will be at November 30. The first update that would have been blocked was 3.31 (October 17). So, an individual user (who doesn't use WebVersions and never checks the database entry by hand) would have an outdated copy of PeStudio for 43 days. (And remember, this is still the worst-case.)

I think the drawback of my suggestion (above) is completely acceptable.

@lajjal: I find KidSafe, NK2Edit and PeStudio just examples. I'm sure no one has attempted to abuse this website.
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Andrew Lee
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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#9 Post by Andrew Lee » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:42 pm

I agree the issue is not with the author updating PE Studio too frequently. It's entirely his business how he wants to run his show. The issue is with how TPFC handles updates, which we are discussing here.

Currently, updates to apps are posted manually by TPFC members (recent updates to PE Studio mostly by Checker). If we can all agree that too-frequent updates are bad, then members can do a self-check before updating to the next release to avoid too-frequent updates. But it seems not everyone buys into this idea, which is why we are discussing this issue.

I *will* update TPFC to deal with this issue, but it won't happen immediately, only after the dust have settled.

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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#10 Post by webfork » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:14 am

lajjal wrote:PEStudio is abuse bordering on spam.
In the off chance that the author of PEStudio should see this forum:

Do not change your software release schedule. I've said this already in another forum but its critical we not even suggest that we're telling you how to release YOUR software, which we are getting GRATIS. That would be irrational and totally counter-productive. It is a well-worn idea in software projects to release early and release often. This is our issue, not yours and our site admin already tackled this:
Andrew Lee wrote:It's entirely his business how he wants to run his show.
Edit: I emailed KidSafe developer who already participated in this discussion (computerfreaker) to say essentially the same thing.

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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#11 Post by lajjal » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:32 pm

I would never tell a developer how often to release their software. An active project like Chromium has several builds every day but they understand that each of those builds do not constitute a release.

The idea that these developers are doing this site a favor by posting their programs here is ludicrous. I don't know the hit rate here but it must be quite high. Where else can they get this kind of unfettered exposure? I know of no other site that supports a release rate like this and word has gotten around.

This is my take on PEStudio. The programmer writes the app and tests it a little bit then posts an update here. Now two things happen that are entirely in the developer's interest. They get a small army of beta testers and they put themselves right on top on the opening page here. The more often they release the more likely they are to be on top when someone stops by.

So why are they writing these apps? Some here would say out of the goodness of their heart, a sense of altruism. I say so they get resume fodder, bring people to their own site, and begin grooming their app for a "professional version".

PEStudio doesn't seem useful enough for a pro version but a quick look at the site tells the story. It's a resume site. The guy is looking for programming contracts and he is using this site for publicity.

It is completely this site admin's right to run things that way. Let's just be realistic about the motives of the developers.

lyx
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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#12 Post by lyx » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:47 am

lajjal wrote:This is my take on PEStudio. The programmer writes the app and tests it a little bit then posts an update here.
No, he doesn't, as has been pointed out repeatedly to you. Perhaps you should cut down on your assumption-spree and invest a bit more in checking hard data, "to be more realistic".

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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#13 Post by webfork » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:40 am

lajjal wrote:So why are they writing these apps? Some here would say out of the goodness of their heart, a sense of altruism. I say so they get resume fodder, bring people to their own site, and begin grooming their app for a "professional version".
LOL. You're absolutely right: freeware developers are just way too greedy. Right.

Hey, I have a good idea: I'll post exactly the opposite to what people are arguing and then giggle myself to sleep at how much argument and dissent and chaos I'll create.

You tried this before and it didn't really work out:
lajjal wrote:When all this is mainstream this site in particular needs to avoid exploitation and that may become a very difficult task. It is my respect for Mr. Lee and the others who helped make this possible that makes me want to see it stay above the fray. I think the time may come when someone offers to buy this site for a very large sum of money.
So why not try again? Everyone's SO greedy! Everyone's for sale! Whether you're trolling or really do have this extremely black-and-white view of the world as only existing in dollars and cents, its not productive to the discussion.

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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#14 Post by usdcs » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:52 am

To borrow a device from I Am Bass...

[sarcasm] Can we please stop posting so much discussion to the Forums! It's gotten to the point that it takes me too long, now, to find the Spam messages that I need to delete. Just because you feel that you have to update a thread, doesn't mean that I want to read it...[/sarcasm]

Life is noisy. As I type this, my co-worker in the next cubicle is talking over the wall to the next person about a personal matter. I don't really want to listen to that.

But, I often pick up other useful business related information in the din in this open office environment. As I see it, I must learn to ignore the noise. If I were to shut down this communication "feed", I would surely miss something important.

This whole discussion has been prompted by a limited number of persons complaining about a limited number of applications. I feel that the discussion has almost become noisier than the original issue.

At best, Andrew might be able to design better "noise filters". But, I don't believe that we can, nor should we, eliminate the noise altogether. If we did that, I believe that it would impair our "hearing", as it were.

Regards,
Dan

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Re: Stop PEStudio Updates

#15 Post by altruist » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:30 pm

I am sure that the people producing free and open source applications are doing it in the hope that the world will be a better place and we must all work together to help in that effort. :|

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