Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

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Andrew Lee
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Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#1 Post by Andrew Lee »

FYI I have updated the "Runs on" list to include Windows 11.

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webfork
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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#2 Post by webfork »

We've mostly ignored this upgrade but as this site is very Windows-focused, I did some digging here ...

--
  • Is it free? Sort of. According to some, this change was all about security, including hardware security that may require will likely require machine upgrades. This is unfortunate as recent Windows updates (7, 8, and 10) all got away from requiring big hardware improvements the way they did all the way up through Vista. It's looking like older machines that don't have these functions will need to move to Linux or get donated.

    It's nice that they're taking security seriously but this feels a bit like Microsoft abandoning ship on the expensive task of shoring up OS security and just giving everything over to the hardware. There's really no way to fix OS security other than a massive hardware update? Seriously?
  • TPFC testing in Win11? For my own work here on the site, I don't see any compelling reason to move to the new OS and therefore won't do any testing in Win11 for the foreseeable future.
  • Is there any reason to upgrade to Win11? - There's some usability tweaks, supposedly better gaming, security (as mentioned above) and Android app support is supposedly on it's way (source). I do wonder if you're likely to see real security improvements over Win10 until it's aged a bit. Anyway, there's also plenty here that's not an improvement.
  • The future / Windows 12? It will likely be cloud-driven, meaning your desktop will be something you log into remotely via a virtual desktop. You might connect to your Windows 11 device via Mac, iOS, or Android via Remote Desktop for a fee. If you live in an area that is likely to still have Internet connection issues in a few years, now might be a good time to move away from Windows.

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SYSTEM
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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#3 Post by SYSTEM »

webfork wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:40 am It's nice that they're taking security seriously but this feels a bit like Microsoft abandoning ship on the expensive task of shoring up OS security and just giving everything over to the hardware. There's really no way to fix OS security other than a massive hardware update? Seriously?
I have a feeling TPM requirement exists primarily for DRM. TPM is somewhat useful for security, but it's DRM that primarily benefits from it.

Integrated TPM only arrived in very recent processors (around 2018) and many older computers would remain perfectly usable on Windows if not for this. As you said, installing Linux is likely the best path forward for those.
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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#4 Post by bitcoin »

webfork wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:40 am The future / Windows 12? It will likely be cloud-driven, meaning your desktop will be something you log into remotely via a virtual desktop. You might connect to your Windows 11 device via Mac, iOS, or Android via Remote Desktop for a fee. If you live in an area that is likely to still have Internet connection issues in a few years, now might be a good time to move away from Windows.
oh wow, i'll be looking to move to Linux then

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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#5 Post by Andrew Lee »

I am constantly reminded by Windows Update that my laptop (5th gen i5) cannot run Windows 11!
webfork wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:40 am [*] The future / Windows 12? It will likely be cloud-driven, meaning your desktop will be something you log into remotely via a virtual desktop. You might connect to your Windows 11 device via Mac, iOS, or Android via Remote Desktop for a fee. If you live in an area that is likely to still have Internet connection issues in a few years, now might be a good time to move away from Windows.
I seriously doubt this will happen any time soon. Too many issues with that. No one has figured out cloud-driven consumer OS yet, and M$ is not known for being innovative :D They will probably wait for Apple or Google to show them how to do it.

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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#6 Post by webfork »

Andrew Lee wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:19 am I seriously doubt this will happen any time soon. Too many issues with that. No one has figured out cloud-driven consumer OS yet, and M$ is not known for being innovative :D They will probably wait for Apple or Google to show them how to do it.
lol burn

I hope you're right about this -- I make the prediction because Microsoft has a habit of going where the money is, and their Azure platform is making a crazy amount of money.

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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#7 Post by Andrew Lee »

webfork wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:48 pm I hope you're right about this -- I make the prediction because Microsoft has a habit of going where the money is, and their Azure platform is making a crazy amount of money.
Azure targets the server-side market. Consumer OS is a whole different beast. Gaming, for one, would be a real problem. Looks at what happened to Google's Stadia.

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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#8 Post by webfork »

Andrew Lee wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:14 pm Azure targets the server-side market. Consumer OS is a whole different beast. Gaming, for one, would be a real problem. Looks at what happened to Google's Stadia.
Yeah that's a good point. It's not as if they're going to buy Activision-Blizzard for ~70 billion and switch over to HTML5 games.

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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#9 Post by webfork »

SYSTEM wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:32 am I have a feeling TPM requirement exists primarily for DRM. TPM is somewhat useful for security, but it's DRM that primarily benefits from it.
So in some news disappointing news Microsoft "Pluton" is looking like a TPM+DRM system being developed with AMD. The direction it suggests for Windows 11 and beyond is not encouraging.

Turns out SYSTEM called it back in 2013 in this post about Win8. More comments in the HNews thread.

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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#10 Post by Midas »

webfork wrote: Microsoft "Pluton" is looking like a TPM+DRM system being developed with AMD. The direction it suggests for Windows 11 and beyond is not encouraging.
Yep, saw that, too. Coupled with the ongoing malware arms race, computing is evolving to leave hapless common users as mere bystanders -- and innocent victims -- of unbeknownst clashes happening inside their systems...
The goal of this execution chain is to deploy a kernel-level implant into a Windows system every time it boots, starting from an infected UEFI component.

All in all, if you ask me, just an expectable corollary of the lockdown of general purpose computing long denounced in some quarters -- e.g., at viewtopic.php?p=74965#p74965...

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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#11 Post by Andrew Lee »

Chilling, I know, especially to us old timers who started off in the personal computing era and tasted the freedom from the start..

But it is a foregone conclusion that the PC industry will eventually head this way. Question was how long it'll take. To be honest, I am kinda of surprised it took so long. I guess the PC industry was just too large a vessel to turn immediately.

Look at the smartphone industry. It was pretty much like this from the get-go due to the sensitive nature of the telecoms industry. The bootloader is encrypted, and the entire machine is locked down from top to bottom. Yeah, there are ways around it, but 99% of people will never get around to it.

Same with the PC industry. Problem is, PC is no longer *personal*. they are deployed in multi-million businesses, and being bombarded by all kinds of malware and ransomware day in-and-out, and this trend is only accelerating. So I kinda figured the PC industry will eventually look a lot like the smartphone industry. Sad, but true..

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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#12 Post by Midas »

Andrew Lee wrote: Look at the smartphone industry. It was pretty much like this from the get-go due to the sensitive nature of the telecoms industry. The bootloader is encrypted, and the entire machine is locked down from top to bottom. Yeah, there are ways around it, but 99% of people will never get around to it.
Funnily enough (or not...), I was just commenting with someone how the first thing I do whenever I get a new Android phone is to unlock the bootloader and install a custom ROM -- usually with minimal Google dependencies...

Here's a link dump with notable alternatives (FYI, Lineage is my current choice, although I also have an old ZTE setup with /e/):
There are a few targeted Linux distros as well:
EDIT: here's a good and detailed review of /e/OS -- which touches good points about similar custom ROMs:

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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#13 Post by SYSTEM »

Midas wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:26 am Here's a link dump with notable alternatives (FYI, Lineage is my current choice, although I also have an old ZTE setup with /e/):
There is still a rather large selection of custom Android ROMs. I'm using Evolution X on my phone and have been happy with it.
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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#14 Post by Midas »

SYSTEM wrote: There is still a rather large selection of custom Android ROMs...

You're totally right, I just wanted to list the more formally established and longer running projects.

Personally, I previously ran A12.1 CrDroid on my current device, after an upgrade from Q's Resurrection Remix OS.

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Re: Added Windows 11 to "Runs on" list

#15 Post by Andrew Lee »

Midas wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:26 am Funnily enough (or not...), I was just commenting with someone how the first thing I do whenever I get a new Android phone is to unlock the bootloader and install a custom ROM -- usually with minimal Google dependencies...
For me, it usually happens a couple of months after I get a new phone. I always start with "Let's give the stock ROM a chance this time", then some limitation crops up and I just have to root the phone. What other choice do I have?

I am currently using Pixel Experience.

I think people who use custom ROMs on their Android phones are like the 1%-ters. Within my circle of friends and acquaintances, I know of no one else who does it.

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