Cafe/Coffee/etc questions

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webfork
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Re: Cafe/Coffee/etc questions

#16 Post by webfork » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:17 pm

rokth wrote:Hey I could care less for Haller or his inputs. He hardly tries to help, and from my own experience I can say all he does is try to prop himself up. His wrappers when working with registry entries tend to be failure prone. The comment regarding firefox four redirecting http, classic. Kinda defeats the purpose when you're trying to redirect uri's to the browser. @Guiness: you want vulgar? Go put on Carlin's 7 words. My reaction was hardly that...unless you're belong to the cult of ESRB.
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Re: Cafe/Coffee/etc questions

#17 Post by m^(2) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:27 pm

JohnTHaller wrote:@rokth - If you re-read my response, I was stating that Thunderbird can redirect HTTP now, which is the most common app that people want to redirect HTTP and the usual reason people ask about mimetype handling. I mentioned mailto as that's the 2nd most common. And I was saying that if you want to try and do FTP to an outside provider from within Firefox, that may be possible as well, though I haven't tried it.

Mimetype work requires registry manipulation on Windows if the app itself you want to send to something else does not have an option for it. That's why I mentioned PortableFileAssociator by wraithdu which handles it in the HKCU hive (as an upcoming PA.c Platform release will).

Our launchers work well and are used without issue by millions of people daily. The same reason they've been approved for use with Mozilla's apps and we partnered with The Document Foundation for LibreOffice. As described, they handle registry entries very well with multiple safe-guards. If you ever find an actual bug, please report it.
If when sb. talks about a problem you deny it, you can claim millions of people use it daily w/out issues and it means nothing. And I'm not talking only about rokth but it matches my own experiences from years ago when you did everything to not acknowledge some problem.

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Re: Cafe/Coffee/etc questions

#18 Post by webfork » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:57 am

m^(2) wrote:If when sb. talks about a problem you deny it, you can claim millions of people use it daily w/out issues and it means nothing. And I'm not talking only about rokth but it matches my own experiences from years ago when you did everything to not acknowledge some problem.
Sometimes software people are not very charismatic, even self-important and prideful. However, it takes a certain kind of person that takes up these sorts of projects and they're frequently not people with the best people skills (I'm no exception). A little charm goes a long way in any community, but do you know how many developers will just read a software license? Clearly answer an e-mail? Not many I've worked with.
millions of people use it daily w/out issues and it means nothing
True but "his wrappers when working with registry entries tend to be failure prone" is also without meaning. Just because millions of users use something doesn't mean its great and just because something has a few bugs doesn't mean its useless.

By contrast, something meaningful would be ignored bug reports, outstanding bugs, or a incompetent/dead development community. There's plenty of examples in community software where someone was doing a poor job and it was forked or someone else took over (its happening now with LibreOffice). If someone is managing the software community incorrectly or badly, that's fine, but if nobody has tried to fix or somehow resolve whatever he's not doing right, that's just further acknowledging the current leader.

It feels like complaining a mechanic didn't do a good job and then not actually doing anything to fix the car. For now we can just avoid the car, but I'd like to go somewhere.

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Re: Cafe/Coffee/etc questions

#19 Post by JohnTHaller » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:24 am

m^(2) wrote:If when sb. talks about a problem you deny it, you can claim millions of people use it daily w/out issues and it means nothing. And I'm not talking only about rokth but it matches my own experiences from years ago when you did everything to not acknowledge some problem.
All I'm doing is asking him to provide a bug report. A real bug report (Example: "I launched AppNamePortable.exe and on exit it left behind HKCU\Software\AppName"). Which he seems unwilling or unable to do. I'm happy to take an actual bug report from anyone, you and rockth included.

The point about the millions of users is that if these apps did have the kinds of horrible bugs that rockth is saying they do (without providing a bug report or any evidence), we'd be hearing about it. A lot. And we'd address that.

Anyone at all can file a bug report in our forums. We tag and track them publicly for everyone to look at. I was just looking at this Maxthon bug today where a specific local folder is created when a less-used feature is accessed (which is why people hadn't noticed it before last week). The Maxthon publisher packages it directly and will address it in the next release over the next week or so.
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Re: Cafe/Coffee/etc questions

#20 Post by JohnTHaller » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:50 am

webfork wrote:Sometimes software people are not very charismatic, even self-important and prideful. However, it takes a certain kind of person that takes up these sorts of projects and they're frequently not people with the best people skills (I'm no exception). A little charm goes a long way in any community, but do you know how many developers will just read a software license? Clearly answer an e-mail? Not many I've worked with.
I'll freely (though, regrettably) admit that there's been times that I've been (less than nice) about work, bug reports, apps, etc on occasions in the past. A project of this size gets stressful and, when running it, you have to realize that you can't please everyone. And you should not take professional criticism personally. The problem was that I always kind of sucked at that and sometimes wound up overly defensive about it. :(

So, if in the past, m^(2) - or anybody else, for that matter - we've crossed paths and it was one of my bad days, I am truly sorry about that. Especially if you were genuinely trying to report a bug/problem or make a suggestion to improve something. I'm not claiming to be all sunshine and light these days... but I like to think I've gotten a lot better :D
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Re: Cafe/Coffee/etc questions

#21 Post by rokth » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:49 pm

I've already stated why I choose not to use mai9's nsis wrappers altered to handle the registry in enough detail(as stealth as turkeys are vegan, system and wrapper crashes leaving a perma trace on host machines, batch scripts could do better in most cases). And considering the honesty of John & Zach I've reason no to help either one. I jumped Haller's ship when Pidgin users had to roll their own and I've no intentions of going back.
Last edited by rokth on Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cafe/Coffee/etc questions

#22 Post by JohnTHaller » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:10 pm

@rokth - Registry wrapping is quite stable, as evidenced by the userbase and lack of bug reports. I've never once seen a wrapper crash. Apps crash on occasion, of course, but that's no big deal for the wrapper as it just keeps on going and restores as expected. The Firefox Portable script used a bit of mai9's old handling for updating the old extension management file back in the Firefox 1.5 days. That was done with his permission and support and crediting him in the source, copyright of the launcher exe, readme.txt and on the Firefox Portable homepage itself (that's how open source works... specifically GPL in this case). We haven't used any of that code in quite some time (years, actually) due to changes in the Firefox internal structure and updated code I created to manage the newer profiles. You'll note that even though we don't use it, he's still referenced on the homepage.

Pidgin seems an odd reference as we use their method for portablization and add additional stuff to the launcher to make it stealth (their methods are certainly not stealth nor do they claim to be) which is why they link directly to us in their details about running Pidgin from USB drives.
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Re: Cafe/Coffee/etc questions

#23 Post by rokth » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:56 pm

rokth wrote:I jumped Haller's ship when Pidgin users had to roll their own and I've no intentions of going back.
What I said. Is what I said. When pidgin users had to roll their own.

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