Windows 9 is... Windows 10

[Midas]

FYI, this is the self description of the Aegis script mentioned before:

• Block 163 bad hosts, change Windows update to check/notify (do not download/install), disable automatic delivery of Internet Explorer via Windows Update, disable CAIP/GWX/Skydrive(AKA Onedrive)/Spynet/Telemetry/Wifisense, disable remote registry, disable 31 scheduled tasks, disable Windows 10 download directory, remove Diagtrack, hide/uninstall 47 kb updates (see below).

And here's the full list of MS updates it removes:

• kb971033 update for windows activation technologies
  kb2882822 update for adding itracerelogger interface support
  kb2902907 description not available, update was pulled by microsoft
  kb2922324 description not available, update was pulled by microsoft
  kb2952664 update for upgrading windows 7
  kb2976978 update for windows 8.1 and windows 8
  kb2977759 update for windows 7 rtm
  kb2990214 update that enables you to upgrade from windows 7 to a later version of windows
  kb3012973 upgrade to windows 10
  kb3014460 update for windows insider preview / upgrade to windows 10
  kb3015249 update that adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7
  kb3021917 update for windows 7 sp1 for performance improvements
  kb3022345 update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
  kb3035583 update installs get windows 10 app in windows 8.1 and windows 7 sp1
  kb3042058 update for cipher suite priority order (contains winlogon spying elements)
  kb3044374 update that enables you to upgrade from windows 8.1 to windows 10
  kb3046480 update for migrating .net when upgrading to later version of windows
  kb3050265 update for windows update client for windows 7 june 2015
  kb3050267 update for windows update client for windows 8.1 june 2015
  kb3064683 update for windows 8.1 oobe modifications to reserve windows 10
  kb3065987 update for windows update client for windows 7 and windows server 2008 r2 july 2015
  kb3065988 update for windows update client for windows 8.1 and windows server 2012 r2 july 2015
  kb3068708 update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
  kb3072318 update for windows 8.1 oobe modifications to reserve windows 10
  kb3074677 compatibility update for upgrading to windows 10
  kb3075249 update that adds telemetry points to consent.exe in windows 8.1 and windows 7
  kb3075851 update for windows update client for windows 7 and windows server 2008 r2 august 2015
  kb3075853 update for windows update client for windows 8.1 and windows server 2012 r2 august 2015
  kb3080149 update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
  kb3081437 august 18, 2015, compatibility update for upgrading to windows 10
  kb3081454 september 8, 2015, compatibility update for upgrading to windows 10
  kb3081954 update for work folders improvements in windows 7 sp1 (contains telemetry elements)
  kb3083324 update for windows update client for windows 7 and windows server 2008 r2 september 2015
  kb3083325 update for windows update client for windows 8.1 and windows server 2012 r2 september 2015
  kb3083710 update for windows update client for windows 7 and windows server 2008 r2 october 2015
  kb3083711 update for windows update client for windows 8.1 and windows server 2012 r2 october 2015
  kb3086255 september 8, 2015, security update for the graphics component in windows (breaks safedisc)
  kb3088195 october 13, 2015, security update for windows kernel (reported to contain a keylogger)
  kb3090045 windows update for reserved devices in windows 8.1 or windows 7 sp1 (windows 10 upgrade elements)
  kb3093983 security update for internet explorer: october 13, 2015 (ie spying elements)
  kb3102810 windows 10 upgrade elements
  kb3102812 windows 10 upgrade elements
  kb3112343 update for windows update client for windows 7 and windows server 2008 r2 december 2015
  kb3112336 update for windows update client for windows 8.1 and windows server 2012 r2 december 2015
  kb3123862 updated capabilities to upgrade windows 8.1 and windows 7
  kb3135445 windows update client for windows 7 and windows server 2008 r2: february 2016
  kb3135449 windows update client for windows 8.1 and windows server 2012 r2: february 2016

[Midas]

The final straw? At least motives for turning an OS into a trojan are made clearer...

• Microsoft doesn’t need Windows anymore
  http://www.computerworld.com/article/3041378

[SYSTEM]

The final straw? At least motives for turning an OS into a trojan are made clearer...

• Microsoft doesn’t need Windows anymore
  http://www.computerworld.com/article/3041378

The article exaggerates the situation. Near-monopoly in PC operating systems is definitely a position worth defending.

In an operating system market, market share is everything. Without market share there won't be enough apps. Without apps, consumers won't buy devices with such an OS. And thus there won't be enough market share. It's a spiral of death. This applies both in the PC and mobile markets.

Microsoft has more than enough experience about that. In the PC market they defeated competitors such as IBM and Apple that way. More recently they lost in the mobile space in the same way.

Their position in PC operating systems is still worth a fortune, and they know it very well.

[Midas]

You're right, SYSTEM. But the article still brings an interesting development to light...

[tactictoe]

I believe Microsoft is moving complexly and completely to cloud service. Windows 10 will still there but it's just a face support to existing product existing on the market. MS Office 360 was the key stone that turns the whole fate of Windows itself. By raising success of this cloud service and bringing more revenue to Microsoft than windows... the fate of windows was sealed. Why creating a new OS when you can modify and upgrade it for an annual fee like MS Office is doing right now, or even like Mac OSx does and even other Unix system? And it works, as Windows 10 is free, even for pirate (http://gizmodo.com/all-windows-10-upgra ... 1692096375). Which bring the fact Microsoft wants you to have Windows 10 as OS for your PC. You might not be aware in the US but in the rest of the world lots of NEW PC are sold with a pirated copy OEM or copy of Windows 10. I guess, Microsoft prefer you run any version of windows 10 even a pirated one. And why not? Why spending dollars for lawsuits when you can win a potential customer with such offer, could you resist? Consider their product on the cloud: the people of Redmond needs Windows 10 alive. Of course it will stay on the desktop OS Market but no more as buy and own it but more like get it for free than subscribe for update and functionality. For a fee in a near predictable future? Another way to cash revenue. All in the clouds, from email, apps and all the Microsoft products they can throw at the cloud as a revenue services. Microsoft is changing its politics once and for all. Unless the cloud is no more giving revenue as expected, it will be a long time before we see Microsoft thinking another way to do cash revenue. That is also why Microsoft politic is so aggressive in terms of update for any update they release. It is vital for Microsoft to migrate the whole public using Microsoft to cloud service or they will suffer lots of financial setback. Microsoft is no more on the battlefield of the OS or so little... dormant state but very well fighting on the Cloud services. An interesting time we are living now, it will determine probably the way most of us works in the future... once Microsoft is more than a contender on the cloud battlefield. Mark my word, they try a monopoly there. The question is will they won the battle? Will there be even a battle with the giant of Redmond? Nothing is a certainty for now... we are all in the blur, in the cloud. But this is MHO.

Have all a nice day.

[SYSTEM]

I believe Microsoft is moving complexly and completely to cloud service. Windows 10 will still there but it's just a face support to existing product existing on the market. MS Office 360 was the key stone that turns the whole fate of Windows itself. By raising success of this cloud service and bringing more revenue to Microsoft than windows... the fate of windows was sealed. Why creating a new OS when you can modify and upgrade it for an annual fee like MS Office is doing right now, or even like Mac OSx does and even other Unix system? And it works, as Windows 10 is free, even for pirate (http://gizmodo.com/all-windows-10-upgra ... 1692096375). Which bring the fact Microsoft wants you to have Windows 10 as OS for your PC. You might not be aware in the US but in the rest of the world lots of NEW PC are sold with a pirated copy OEM or copy of Windows 10. I guess, Microsoft prefer you run any version of windows 10 even a pirated one. And why not? Why spending dollars for lawsuits when you can win a potential customer with such offer, could you resist? Consider their product on the cloud: the people of Redmond needs Windows 10 alive. Of course it will stay on the desktop OS Market but no more as buy and own it but more like get it for free than subscribe for update and functionality. For a fee in a near predictable future? Another way to cash revenue. All in the clouds, from email, apps and all the Microsoft products they can throw at the cloud as a revenue services. Microsoft is changing its politics once and for all. Unless the cloud is no more giving revenue as expected, it will be a long time before we see Microsoft thinking another way to do cash revenue. That is also why Microsoft politic is so aggressive in terms of update for any update they release. It is vital for Microsoft to migrate the whole public using Microsoft to cloud service or they will suffer lots of financial setback. Microsoft is no more on the battlefield of the OS or so little... dormant state but very well fighting on the Cloud services. An interesting time we are living now, it will determine probably the way most of us works in the future... once Microsoft is more than a contender on the cloud battlefield. Mark my word, they try a monopoly there. The question is will they won the battle? Will there be even a battle with the giant of Redmond? Nothing is a certainty for now... we are all in the blur, in the cloud. But this is MHO.

Have all a nice day.

Your message highlights one problem when people talk about "the cloud".

What does "the cloud" mean anyway?

It has traditionally referred to cloud computing, i.e. services like Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure, which can be used to e.g. host websites or perform massive computing jobs (like password cracking).

But, with that definition, the words "migrate the whole public using Microsoft to cloud service" doesn't make any sense at all. A regular user doesn't have any need for cloud computing services. After all, a regular user doesn't have their own website (and even those who do, don't need so much processing power that the site should be hosted in the cloud), or need to run very large computing jobs.

Unfortunately, "the cloud" is a buzzword, and technology companies attempt to use the word whenever they can in order to look like they are on top of the "latest IT trends". Thus, online file storage services such as Dropbox and Google Drive are now called "cloud services" (that's the only term those services have in Finnish -.-); software houses which develop web apps for companies call their web apps "cloud solutions"; when an IT company uses their own internal infrastructure instead of the cloud, the infrastructure is called "private cloud".

And yet... I still hadn't seen the words "the cloud" to be used in the way you do.

Consider their product on the cloud: the people of Redmond needs Windows 10 alive. Of course it will stay on the desktop OS Market but no more as buy and own it but more like get it for free than subscribe for update and functionality.

Are you saying that merely switching from "buy and own" to the subscription model moves their product to "the cloud", even though it still runs locally like before? Does "the cloud" mean anything at all anymore?

----

For a fee in a near predictable future? Another way to cash revenue.

It is very unlikely that Microsoft would try to charge an annual fee for using Windows. The public is not used to pay annually about using a computer. If Microsoft tried to charge money, almost no one would pay. The result would be a very little amount of additional revenue, a whole lot of negative PR, and a massive number of unpatched computers which would become infected by malware sooner or later.

[Userfriendly]

Just a whole lot of fear mongering when it comes to anything Microsoft right now. Just let them make the mistake and cause a huge backlash. We can trust them to backtrack or improve on anything bad they do. That's for sure. Maybe.

UWP for example had some criticism when it comes to games made with that format. Rightfully so but the UWP we have right now may not be the same down the road since its ongoing in development and improvements. They seem to be responding to constructive criticism and are planning to implement stuff that are lacking compared to win32 apps. Maybe.

Their philosophy on Windows 10 is a constantly updating platform or "the last version of windows" you'll ever need. If there ever is going to be a DirectX 13 or 14, you probably won't need Windows 11 because it won't exist. All gonna be in Win10. Maybe.

All these talk of end-of-days or hypothetical worst case scenarios with what Microsoft will do is highly doubtful because I'm sure they're smart enough to know these shoot-self-in-the-foot situations are not something they wanna do. Maybe.

If they however do something undesirable, it's probably because the whole industry or competitors does it with great success and they're just copying what works. They learned it works. It works because the people, the customers make it work. They can learn it fails as well. We share the blame as much as they do. Maybe.

Point is, Microsoft... Windows 10... Is Skynet. It's a neural net cpu, a learning computer. Or is that Google? Everything is trying to be Skynet these days. Human extinction is the end result. Maybe.

WHAT I REALLY REALLY WANT THOUGH IS FOR THEM TO FIX THE STUPID START MENU BUG WITH MISSING AND UNSEARCHABLE APPS AND SHORTCUTS. ITS BEEN AROUND SINCE BETA/LAUNCH. WHEN ARE THEY GONNA FIX THIS? HOW DO THEY BREAK SOMETHING THAT WAS WORKING IN 7 and 8? ITS MY ONLY GRIPE ABOUT 10. LOOK AT THIS THREAD PEOPLE STILL HAVE PROBLEMS WITH IT. THEY SAID THEY HAVE "FIXED" IT WITH THE NOVEMBER UPDATE BUT HONESTLY THEY JUST IMPLEMENTED A WORKAROUND. I WASN'T CLOSE TO THE 512 ITEM LIMIT AND SURE AS HELL AINT CLOSE TO 2048 WHICH IS THE NEW LIMIT. AND ITS STILL BROKE. WHY HAS LIMIT AT ALL EVEN?

[tactictoe]

@System
That was my opinion and I stick with it. When I said cloud application, I meant Client software on the PC and the rest on line, does it make more sense now? May be I should explained more next time. Something like: They are already plenty application doing so, one of the favourite in Australia is MyOB doing this for years now. You just run a client software but to use it you need to log on line, most of the functionality are ON LINE... in the cloud, in the Wan, on the internet, or whatever it is suitable to be called for being understood. For windows 10 fee I put a question mark. Not an exclamation mark. But I am sure that will go that way, at least for premium edition of windows 10. Cloud is a vague term for WAN I do agree but when I refer to cloud I could refer to the Net, the WAN, the Internet or whatever... they are no definition at all really for this word. As you said it might be just a trend, but to be honest I do not care. Fact is most people do not know what WAN is, but understand what a cloud is... To my point of view Microsoft is just trying to grab as much market as they can in the cloud services market (their own word BTW) and that is definitely the way they are going just because that's the way they feel they can make revenue. They are a business after all, they do whatever they are pleased... with such a treasure of war they accumulated they can afford it. Worst? they will make you believe it was the public idea, they just follow the trend you described before. That is it.



Have a nice day.

Edited: I am so displeased with Windows 10, I run it in a VM Ware environment fully firewalled: NO ACCESS TO THE INTERNET AT ALL. And it is just for software development test purpose. Ironically it runs like that under an old XP machine reconverted for that purpose only. Far away from my very own PC. Will I ever use windows 10 on my own PC: NEVER. It is to me the biggest spyware ever made on the planet. Lots of my own customer absolutely HATE the thing. And they are more than one reason for it. Be the devil advocate of windows 10 if you like but it is a fact that lots of people are since windows 8 very very sad to use Microsoft product. If they had the courage to move away from it, learning a new OS put off lots, they would. FACT. Most move to MAC OS PC which I do consider myself too and good riddance windows. FACT. After all because they do what they are pleased to do for revenue reason, I can't see the point to please them more myself. Of course I am but just a drop in the ocean. But here is my firm opinion, take it or leave it, or disagree with... I stick with it.

Edited again:

The public is not used to pay annually about using a computer.

they should get used to it... IF Microsoft decided it will go that way... not sure for which edition of windows 10 thought. It does remember me what Microsoft said to all developer: We are going to introduce .NET... blah blah then later on the track with so many of us outraged: 'You are with us or against us'... what about that? Last? Not really but I have to conclude somehow. History repeats itself, the last politics to FORCE migration of PC to windows 10 is so aggressive I do not have to make the link with .Net story, do I?

[tactictoe]

WHAT I REALLY REALLY WANT THOUGH IS FOR THEM TO FIX THE STUPID START MENU BUG WITH MISSING AND UNSEARCHABLE APPS AND SHORTCUTS. ITS BEEN AROUND SINCE BETA/LAUNCH. WHEN ARE THEY GONNA FIX THIS? HOW DO THEY BREAK SOMETHING THAT WAS WORKING IN 7 and 8? ITS MY ONLY GRIPE ABOUT 10. LOOK AT THIS THREAD PEOPLE STILL HAVE PROBLEMS WITH IT. THEY SAID THEY HAVE "FIXED" IT WITH THE NOVEMBER UPDATE BUT HONESTLY THEY JUST IMPLEMENTED A WORKAROUND. I WASN'T CLOSE TO THE 512 ITEM LIMIT AND SURE AS HELL AINT CLOSE TO 2048 WHICH IS THE NEW LIMIT. AND ITS STILL BROKE. WHY HAS LIMIT AT ALL EVEN?

Use classic shell: it solves it all for me. Here is the URL: http://www.classicshell.net/

[Userfriendly]

Use classic shell: it solves it all for me. Here is the URL: http://www.classicshell.net/

I actually like the Windows 10 Start Menu with the tile shortcuts. I liked the the tiles system since 8. I just want this one minor bug fixed. It doesn't really ruin much. It's just tad bit annoying when a handful of apps are missing in the programs menu making them impossible to pin or search in the start menu so i have to alternatively make a desktop or taskbar shortcut for them.

I know all the replacement start menus out there. I just don't want to go back to the vista/7 style. Which i rarely used back then. I was the type that had many desktop shortcuts. Tiles effectively replace those desktop shortcuts but much neater and organized.

Anyway, why do you consider Apple the lesser of evils? They collect the same type of data MS does. Google/Android is an even bigger "Spyware" that collects even more personal stuff and nobody ever cares about that. Well some of their products do cause some stir due to privacy concerns but not as prominent. There's a public perception problem with Microsoft and Windows 10. Tons of click bait sensationalism making things seem bigger than they really are. A lot of people are quick to react to headlines and don't do any further reading or research.

Probably want to consider some sort of Linux Distro. On the casual user side of things, very little to learn if you stay on the desktop and usual web browsers, text editors, productivity apps etc. But when it comes to tweaking OS stuff or finding and using alternative applications for industry standard stuff then some learning is needed.

[SYSTEM]

UWP for example had some criticism when it comes to games made with that format. Rightfully so but the UWP we have right now may not be the same down the road since its ongoing in development and improvements. They seem to be responding to constructive criticism and are planning to implement stuff that are lacking compared to win32 apps. Maybe.

I hadn't heard about that criticism. I found this article with a quick search: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/02/m ... -pc-games/

Thanks for letting me know about the UWP criticism. I have thought about buying Quantum Break one day, and now I'll need to take the UWP limitations into account in my decisions.

When I said cloud application, I meant Client software on the PC and the rest on line, does it make more sense now?

Not really. An operating system is low-level software. It contains things like the kernel, hardware drivers (including network chip drivers) and the network stack. You obviously can't move them to the cloud. In addition, the OS needs to function if the user is offline (for example, if the network is misconfigured) so that the user can investigate and fix the problem (and while we're at it, it's also useful if the user can use the computer offline for other reasons).

Moving Windows itself to the cloud is impossible.

Fact is most people do not know what WAN is, but understand what a cloud is...

I disagree. See my previous post. Because "the cloud" is a buzzword, it has been used to label a lot of things which have nothing to do with cloud computing.

Seriously, try asking anyone what "the cloud" means. Whoever you ask, I'm sure they will either (1) just answer that they don't know or (2) give you the definition of cloud computing, which does not cover web apps (such as MYOB you mentioned).

To my point of view Microsoft is just trying to grab as much market as they can in the cloud services market (their own word BTW) and that is definitely the way they are going just because that's the way they feel they can make revenue.

Microsoft's cloud services division is Microsoft Azure (which I already mentioned above) plus some fraction of software that often runs in the cloud, like Windows Server and Microsoft SQL Server. In particular, Office 365 is part of the Office division, not the cloud services division, because it has nothing to do with the cloud.

Of course Microsoft tries to earn money in the cloud services market (both by selling processing power off their own cloud, and by selling software for other clouds such as AWS), but it doesn't affect Windows on desktop in any way.

Edited: I am so displeased with Windows 10, I run it in a VM Ware environment fully firewalled: NO ACCESS TO THE INTERNET AT ALL. And it is just for software development test purpose. Ironically it runs like that under an old XP machine reconverted for that purpose only. Far away from my very own PC. Will I ever use windows 10 on my own PC: NEVER. It is to me the biggest spyware ever made on the planet. Lots of my own customer absolutely HATE the thing. And they are more than one reason for it. Be the devil advocate of windows 10 if you like but it is a fact that lots of people are since windows 8 very very sad to use Microsoft product. If they had the courage to move away from it, learning a new OS put off lots, they would. FACT. Most move to MAC OS PC which I do consider myself too and good riddance windows. FACT. After all because they do what they are pleased to do for revenue reason, I can't see the point to please them more myself. Of course I am but just a drop in the ocean. But here is my firm opinion, take it or leave it, or disagree with... I stick with it.

I have already written my opinion about telemetry in Windows 10, and don't want to repeat myself.

The public is not used to pay annually about using a computer.

they should get used to it... IF Microsoft decided it will go that way... not sure for which edition of windows 10 thought.

As I said, it's very unlikely that Microsoft decides to go that way. It is very hard to get literally billions of people to do something they haven't done before, you know.

It does remember me what Microsoft said to all developer: We are going to introduce .NET... blah blah then later on the track with so many of us outraged: 'You are with us or against us'... what about that?

Any source for that quote? I was too young in the early years of .NET to know details about its history.

My understanding is that using .NET has always been optional for developers. It gained ground by simply being a very good platform (I touched that subject in a post of mine).

Anyway, why do you consider Apple the lesser of evils? They collect the same type of data MS does. Google/Android is an even bigger "Spyware" that collects even more personal stuff and nobody ever cares about that. Well some of their products do cause some stir due to privacy concerns but not as prominent. There's a public perception problem with Microsoft and Windows 10. Tons of click bait sensationalism making things seem bigger than they really are. A lot of people are quick to react to headlines and don't do any further reading or research.

Agreed.

[Midas]

Seriously, try asking anyone what "the cloud" means. Whoever you ask, I'm sure they will either (1) just answer that they don't know or (2) give you the definition of cloud computing, which does not cover web apps (such as MYOB you mentioned).

• The best definition I have read to date (and the one I abide by): "the cloud" is just someone else's computer...

[tactictoe]

Consider their product on the cloud: the people of Redmond needs Windows 10 alive.

I thought I was clear here too. They need windows 10 alive on your PC to sell product based on line. They will move more and more product online not windows 10 as you mentioned earlier even I disagree to the fact it cannot be move on line. Terminal PC loading OS from a server is possible, however I cannot see the point here with windows itself as it would need Internet all the time and it is not really liveable. Anyway technically anything is possible, it just has to be done. That is called the power of imagination, even sometime it's more part of the dream realm due to science limitation. Academic: Sciences place barrier as fact, Engineer just like to break them to walk where sciences does not dare to go. But it is an old story. What is liveable is application like MS Office move on line and you have just a client to access pay part you need that might be download for off-line purpose from a cloud service.

I do not pretends to know Microsoft plan. I do not spy on this company at all. Just impression and intuition that never betrayed me and served me well all my life. For the .net story it made the news enough to find trace of this. I just do not want to argue on the subject anymore. I have enough of Microsoft, they disgust me more and more time pass.
For my personal future PC why MAC OS, I said I consider going that way. Yes it is a lesser evil but such was Microsoft since day one until now I can't bear it anymore. So yes Microsoft windows 7 and 8.1 are my last windows OS. End of story.

About the cloud. Well it seems here in Australia we have a better understanding of it in general public. Probably because we are bombed with adds talking about it the Aussie way. A bit like Broadband for ADSL and National Broadband advertising... Yes ADSL is not understood by Aussie but Broadband, yep they know about it. So, people here understand what cloud is, at least they know it is a based on a services on the net, whatever this service could be. I doubt you ever used Myob as it is a typical Aussie product for accounting, and I am pretty sure that even you read online about it you have no deep understanding of this software neither you ever used it. As I said, the product offer on line service: cloud 'computing' as you insist. I said cloud, but who cares what I said: http://myob.com.au/blog/5-reasons-cloud ... he-better/. Part of the software works off line but most of it need on line access. Anyway, I am tired of this argument. With no disrespect, if you think I am wrong, well good on ya mate, have a go with someone else will ya? It does not change the fact I stick with what I think and believe in. After all we are living in a free world and this Aussie bulldog sticks on its bone with right to do so... in peace.

Now I have enough of this subject, this was my last post for the sake of this argument. I stick with what I said.

Edited: Oh, forgot this one. OS as in Operating System does not necessarily have or need a kernel. In my line of engineering we do create robots with their own OS... No kernel. More like Neural system Network. But this is as much I will talk about it.

[SYSTEM]

About the cloud. Well it seems here in Australia we have a better understanding of it in general public. Probably because we are bombed with adds talking about it the Aussie way. A bit like Broadband for ADSL and National Broadband advertising... Yes ADSL is not understood by Aussie but Broadband, yep they know about it.

Same here. (Although no one talks about broadband any more because everyone has it. Finland is in a very good situation regarding Internet connections. )

I doubt you ever used Myob as it is a typical Aussie product for accounting, and I am pretty sure that even you read online about it you have no deep understanding of this software neither you ever used it.

Yes, that's true.

As I said, the product offer on line service: cloud 'computing' as you insist.

The word "computing" is critical.

Remember how the cloud is being touted in the media? The idea, the reason why the cloud is so "revolutionary", is that instead of performing the calculations locally, a company can rent processing power from a cloud company. It works like the electricity grid: pretty much every company out there simply pays the power company for electricity instead of having their own generators.

But. Web apps are not cloud computing. The number of computations your average web app performs is laughably small. What is being rented isn't processing power. It's merely web hosting, which existed before "the cloud" became a buzzword.

Think about the event timeline a bit:

1. Web hosting was invented.
2. "The cloud" became a buzzword. IT companies everywhere started touting that the cloud will be the next revolution in IT. Emphasis on "next".
3. Web hosting was retroactively renamed to "the cloud".

See the problem?

If you claim that web hosting was "the cloud", then why did everyone say that the cloud will be the next revolution in IT given that it had already happened? That option doesn't make any sense.

The other option that would logically work is that the so-called "revolution" happened when web hosting was retroactively renamed. But, umm, no one in their right mind would seriously claim that renaming existing technology is an "IT revolution".

Hence, it is impossible for web apps to be cloud computing. Q.E.D.

I said cloud, but who cares what I said: http://myob.com.au/blog/5-reasons-cloud ... he-better/.

Thank you for the link. It confirms my suspicions: MYOB is just a web app. I'll go through the five reasons that the company itself gave:

1. Only one version of each data file: this advantage is caused by MYOB being a web app. Web apps store the data on the server, and therefore there won't be multiple versions of data files. Nothing to do with the cloud.
2. Collaborative editing: again, an advantage of web apps thanks to storing the data on the server.
3. Automatic data entry: this is actually merely a feature that MYOB implemented in their web app. It would even be possible in a traditional desktop program.
4. Business owners can make better decisions: this one is just a rehash of the "only one version" and the "mobility" advantages.
5. Mobility: a standard capability of web apps. Nothing to do with the cloud.

If they had said something like "MYOB needs to calculate so much data that waiting times would be too long without the cloud", then I would agree that MYOB is a cloud-powered service. But they didn't say anything like that.

Anyway, I am tired of this argument. With no disrespect, if you think I am wrong, well good on ya mate, have a go with someone else will ya? It does not change the fact I stick with what I think and believe in. After all we are living in a free world and this Aussie bulldog sticks on its bone with right to do so... in peace.

Now I have enough of this subject, this was my last post for the sake of this argument. I stick with what I said.

You are free to disagree with me. Personally I like arguing with people. If you don't want to post any more, that's fine for me. At least I get the last word that way.

Edited: Oh, forgot this one. OS as in Operating System does not necessarily have or need a kernel. In my line of engineering we do create robots with their own OS... No kernel. More like Neural system Network. But this is as much I will talk about it.

This is a matter of terminology. Myself I define an "operating system" in a way that a kernel is a mandatory component. Anything without a kernel is not an OS: it can be a PC booter for example.

[tactictoe]

This is a matter of terminology. Myself I define an "operating system" in a way that a kernel is a mandatory component. Anything without a kernel is not an OS: it can be a PC booter for example.

I am glad it is your definition only.

For you information here is the dictionnary definition:

operating system
noun
noun: operating system; plural noun: operating systems

The low-level software that supports a computer's basic functions, such as scheduling tasks and controlling peripherals.
The BIOS of a motherboard is by this definition an Operating system. DOS is an operating system. Eprom software controlling Hardware with user input is an OS such as CMOS. All of them have no kernel. But it is just the official definition of the dictionary.

You could also read the wikipedia page about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system, same same.