Opera version naming

[Magibon]

Thanks for allowing me to vent..

Sure, that's what friends are for

^^ and the condescing, spiteful tone continues.

I have sent you a PM as it started to get it personal.

started? it became personal as soon as you guys publicly blasted me on the database, then in the forums.
not just 1, but multiple people.. . and not in a professional, nice manner.
but condescending, and very impolite.

I have been here, as a member, trying to contribute, for a long time.
if you look around.. you'll see my traces.

You guys acted as if i was a complete stranger, and purposely tried to deface the database.
- i merely tried to contribute by updating the database.
- which ChromePera was not updated for a few versions.

Now.. maybe my updating was not up to par as you guys have publicly broadcasted.

Instead of publicly thrashing a long-time member who has done nothing but tried to contribute:
- don't you think it would have been more productive to send me a PM, and tell me?
- so maybe i could've improved?

Don't worry.. im not here to beg to be accepted.
- but hope my disgrace can help this forum in the future.

[guinness]

Would you be so kind to move this to PM instead. My initial post was general and not aimed at you per say, but since it has come to this, I wish for your reputation to remain positive and hope you will move on from this. Thank you.

I will ask a Mod to move this into an appropriate area of the Forum.

[I am Baas]

I have sent you a PM as it started to get it personal.

started? it became personal as soon as you guys publicly blasted me on the database, then in the forums.
not just 1, but multiple people.. . and not in a professional, nice manner.
but condescending, and very impolite.

I have been here, as a member, trying to contribute, for a long time.
if you look around.. you'll see my traces.

You guys acted as if i was a complete stranger, and purposely tried to deface the database.
- i merely tried to contribute by updating the database.
- which ChromePera was not updated for a few versions.

Now.. maybe my updating was not up to par as you guys have publicly broadcasted.

Instead of publicly thrashing a long-time member who has done nothing but tried to contribute:
- don't you think it would have been more productive to send me a PM, and tell me?
- so maybe i could've improved?

Don't worry.. im not here to beg to be accepted.
- but hope my disgrace can help this forum in the future.

Are you for real? Public trashing?

The first posts were of general nature, alerting the community to the changes made to the Opera db entry. This is how it's done here (your hero could attest to that). You are the one who made it personal and also moved the discussion to the comments section:

@ guniess
that's not the point.. the point is ChromOpera is decrepit..

i had this post edited properly for long-time Opera enthusiasts.. this is not a full browser as it stands..

i have no idea why checker completely removed any, and all notations i've made on this post..
*thanks for appreciating your community's contributions.

Thanks for allowing me to vent..

Sure, that's what friends are for

^^ and the condescing, spiteful tone continues.

What a shame you confuse humor for a mean comment.

[Checker]

i have no idea why checker completely removed any, and all notations i've made on this post..

To make it clear, I didn't remove your entries. The only thing I changed was this:

[guinness]

Don't worry Checker, in the PM I sent I made it clear I was the culprit.

[webfork]

i have no idea why checker completely removed any, and all notations i've made on this post..
*thanks for appreciating your community's contributions.

Your contributions are welcome, but you have to remember that this is a collaborative process: no one owns the entry contents and there's necessarily some disagreement about what goes into some of the site's entries. As a result, dramatic entry edits really need to be addressed in forums before posting to the entry. For example, this came up for me with LibreOffice, where I discussed changes with Haller before making edits that I knew he would be concerned about. Like you, I have very strong feelings about that program and entry, but without the input of others, it's not a community.

if my personal judgement was not up to par.. why not contact me?

Because you didn't post to forums about a rather dramatic change (including entry name change) before you made it. I think your fellow community members are upset because they were left out of that process.

publicly thrashed me & my reputation as a contributor to smithereens?

You've done loads on this site and we appreciate your work. Your reputation is fine and your contribution obvious. The truth is that your edit is how many people feel and is -- for some -- much more accurate than what we have now. But the official entry isn't the place to get into that. Like journalists, I think we need to be dispassionate and factual for a broader audience that is looking for a basic introduction and then have various links (including the "Forum" link) to get more information and insight.

But it's obvious.. "Friendship" & "Community" .. we have different definitions for.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm here because freeware developers gave away their stuff for free and I'm trying to what I can to make their work known and easy to use. Along the way, I'm going to disagree with on the approach, but I respect those that help me do what is ultimately the reason I get up in the morning. I sincerely believe the disagreement and rancor makes the site better and makes me a better PFW'er.

That said, being that this is a web forum, we can't connect on a standard friendship level, but if any of the regulars lived close to me I already would have suggested hanging out.

[webfork]

Again, I'd like to propose adding a separate entry for new Opera vs. old Opera ... once a moderator gives the okay, I will gladly create the new entry.

I've already responded to this but my moderator status doesn't enter into it: this is a convention setup by Andrew going years back before I was here. If he's fine with it, feel free.

[guinness]

Because you didn't post to forums about a rather dramatic change (including entry name change) before you made it. I think your fellow community members are upset because they were left out of that process.

I have no issue people making dramatic changes without permission, I don't even care if people change my application entries e.g. Swap'em/ProEject without consulting me first, just so long as the information is factually true. I mean ChromePera is clearly not a product that Opera endorses and is just a mash up of Opera and Chrome, because the current version of Opera uses Blink, a product by the Chromium project.

[Midas]

You've done loads on this site and we appreciate your work. Your reputation is fine and your contribution obvious. The truth is that your edit is how many people feel and is -- for some -- much more accurate than what we have now. But the official entry isn't the place to get into that. Like journalists, I think we need to be dispassionate and factual for a broader audience that is looking for a basic introduction and then have various links (including the "Forum" link) to get more information and insight.

• I believe our moderator exceedingly addressed the gist of the matter here.
  
  Myself, I couldn't care less about what each version is named here, as long as it remains generally straightforward to grasp what each moniker stands for.
  
  IMHO, involved parties should agree to disagree, find some workable entente in the existing framework of forum rules, and move on (or off, by which I mean: proceed to jousting via PM)...

[joby_toss]

OK, I'm done! I have absolutely no tolerance for the lies they told me and for the corporatism-like behavior! I'll never use the "new" Opera browser again!
Just read these:
http://www.reddit.com/r/operabrowser/co ... view_with/
http://www.reddit.com/r/operabrowser/co ... ceo_about/
It's not even funny! More here: http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/im ... ra-account
I only post this message to let anyone else know what my replacement browser is, if you are looking for something similar: Sleipnir. It took me half a day to customize it, but I made it behave similar to our beloved Opera browser, old version of course. It's still far from it, but it's the best I could find.

P.S. and I finally have managed to remove the "Close tab -fu..ing- button" in a browser that uses Blink (webkit)! So Fu.k you, Google, for telling me it can't be done!

[Midas]

Sad state of affairs, indeed...

Looks like an once alternative but vibrant product (and surrounding culture) is imploding. A question strikes me instantly: in the name of what? What shady dealings have prompted Opera to become another Nokia?

(Sigh!) They could at least have open sourced Presto to hedge their present bet -- remember how Netscape became Mozilla?

[SYSTEM]

Looks like an once alternative but vibrant product (and surrounding culture) is imploding. A question strikes me instantly: in the name of what? What shady dealings have prompted Opera to become another Nokia?

I explained it in my post:

The reason Opera Software switched to Blink is that they realized they can't compete against Google and Mozilla in the layout engine market, and that they don't have to because most parts of WebKit and Blink are under the BSD license (i.e. they can use either and simultaneously keep Opera closed source).

Opera Software didn't become worse. Their competitors became better.

If Opera Software would have continued the same way, Opera would have fallen behind technologically.

(Sigh!) They could at least have open sourced Presto to hedge their present bet -- remember how Netscape became Mozilla?

I believe open source Presto would have gotten way too few developers to keep up with Blink, Gecko and WebKit.

[Midas]

Yep, I read that; I agree it might look like a sound strategy from a corporate point of view. Time will tell.

I believe open source Presto would have gotten way too few developers to keep up with Blink, Gecko and WebKit.

Still, it would still be there as an option. As in nature, diversity is a value that needs to be nurtured.

[guinness]

I think people need to remember open source doesn't equal an increase in development.

[webfork]

I think people need to remember open source doesn't equal an increase in development.

True. Eric Raymond said after the Netscape release of source code that open source isn't a magic pixie dust. Still, I agree that a diverse set of available rendering engines would be better in the long run and Presto's capability with low-resource and small devices would be very welcome in many OSS applications. That engine ran on some very slow, very small devices that would definitely find some takers in the hobbyist world.