Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inkscape

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JohnTHaller
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Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inkscape

#1 Post by JohnTHaller » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:59 pm

If there are no objections, I am going to switch the X-Inkscape 0.48.2-1 [rev11] entry to Inkscape Portable 0.48.2 once the new release is announced. In the PFC entry, the website link will go to the official Inkscape homepage ( http://inkscape.org/ ) and the download link will go to the official Inkscape download page ( http://inkscape.org/download/?lang=en ). Inkscape Portable is the portable version made available by the Inkscape developers themselves while X-Inkscape is done by a third party. X-Inkscape will get an "Alternatively, ..." mention at the end of the entry.

In addition, the X-Inkscape version has jumped the gun and released as official 0.48.2 before it has been officially released by the Inkscape devs. According to the Inkscape site, 0.48.1 is still the official release even though they have 0.48.2 in both standard and portable forms available on SourceForge. Until a given publisher announces a release, you can't really call a given piece of software 'final' as it could easily be pulled or revised.

PFC Listing: http://www.portablefreeware.com/?id=657
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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#2 Post by webfork » Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:30 pm

Nobody replied when I posted about this a few weeks ago so I just considered it a non-problem. I obviously have no issue.

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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#3 Post by JohnTHaller » Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:47 pm

webfork wrote:Nobody replied when I posted about this a few weeks ago so I just considered it a non-problem. I obviously have no issue.
Right, but I wanted the subject to say what was happening so no one misses it. Arguably, someone may have missed your previous comment about it as from the subject it seemed like a simple new version posting.
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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#4 Post by guinness » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:11 pm

I have no issue with it.
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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#5 Post by Danix » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:27 pm

Obviously I disagree. X-Inkscape is one of the few software based on winPenPack technology that is not reported as an alternative to PortableApps versions. I think it's more just and equitable to leave the download page as it is.

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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#6 Post by webfork » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:25 pm

Danix wrote:Obviously I disagree. X-Inkscape is one of the few software based on winPenPack technology that is not reported as an alternative to PortableApps versions. I think it's more just and equitable to leave the download page as it is.
I thought that too, but I think the question should not be whether PortableApps already carries the majority of entries. We should be talking about which one is better. As with KDE and Gnome, the competition between the two projects benefits everyone and its my view that PFWC should let the best proggie win. As with the LibreOffice issue SYSTEM brought up, PFWC can switch to Inkscape Portable and then switch back to X-Inkscape again if there's a compelling reason.

For example, user Chris Morgan posted that his PA version has a few advantages:
I've got around the APPDATA storage thing, and it is completely stealthy. Nothing will be left behind ... It's also apparently smaller than the WinPenPack version (just going by figures, I haven't downloaded theirs).
Danix: Is this accurate? Is Inkscape Portable superior in terms of size/portability?
Last edited by webfork on Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: (added bit about LibreOffice)

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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#7 Post by JohnTHaller » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:02 pm

Danix wrote:Obviously I disagree. X-Inkscape is one of the few software based on winPenPack technology that is not reported as an alternative to PortableApps versions. I think it's more just and equitable to leave the download page as it is.
It isn't a matter of equity, Inkscape Portable is the portable version that Inkscape distributes themselves, which carries a decent amount of weight. Chris Morgan works with them directly on it and some internal changes were made in Inkscape to assist in the matter. PortableApps.com doesn't distribute it from our site, we simply link to it. And we both support it, which is something else that's important.
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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#8 Post by JohnTHaller » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:15 pm

webfork wrote:Danix: Is this accurate? Is Inkscape Portable superior in terms of size/portability?
X-Inkscape was updated in the current release to use the new method we created in Inkscape itself for Inkscape Portable use: INKSCAPE_PORTABLE_PROFILE_DIR. X-Inkspace is a larger download than Inkscape Portable (65.1MB compared to 35.4MB) and a larger install (203MB compared to 73-146MB depending on language selection).
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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#9 Post by JohnTHaller » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:25 pm

webfork wrote:I thought that too, but I think the question should not be whether PortableApps already carries the majority of entries. We should be talking about which one is better. As with KDE and Gnome, the competition between the two projects benefits everyone and its my view that PFWC should let the best proggie win. As with the LibreOffice issue SYSTEM brought up, PFWC can switch to Inkscape Portable and then switch back to X-Inkscape again if there's a compelling reason.
I don't think that's really the case overall. I believe PFC's general policy is to link the the portable version that the publisher provides/supports or instructions on how to extract a portable version from their normal version. This is the case with multiple app listings that are not stealth and have things break portably as you move machines as long as they mostly work. The PortableApps.com versions are listed as alternatives in these cases despite being demonstrably superior (stealth, fully portable and even allowing things like most recent files to continue working, etc).

The exception is listings like Pidgin where the instructions for making a portable version are quite convoluted and resulted in an only partially portable app or VLC where there is no official portable version and the old instructions result in a mostly non-portable app with major functionality like the music library being non-functional.
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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#10 Post by Danix » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:47 pm

webfork wrote:Danix: Is this accurate? Is Inkscape Portable superior in terms of size/portability?
webfork, I think both versions are excellent. Also the winPenPack version is completely stealthy. Probably the two versions have only different features.
For example, I noticed that Inkscape Portable is smaller than X-Inkscape, as John said (although I'm not quite agree with the installer for distribute the portable versions). But in the winPenPack version all paths of recent files (if files are saved in \Bin\Inkscape, \User\Inkscape or \Documents\Inkscape directories) are normalized when the drive letter or the software position changes. In the PA version, the recent files list is deleted every time. In the winPenPack version all paths are normalized in preferences.xml file and the default working directory has been set to \Documents\Inkscape folder. In the PA version no paths are normalized.

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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#11 Post by JohnTHaller » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:12 pm

Danix wrote:In the PA version, the recent files list is deleted every time.
That's simply untrue. Inkscape Portable being distributed by Inkscape maintains and portablizes the recent files list and automatically updates drive letters within the preferences.xml and .recently-used.xbel files just as it should. It also automatically handles language switching when launched from the PortableApps.com Platform (as well as falling back to the system default and letting the user specify it manually with a simple INI change) and lots of other cool features enabled by PortableApps.com Format.

I took the time to download the latest X-Inkscape to be sure I had my facts straight on whether you'd copied and implemented our portablization method and environment variable (which you have, rather than your older APPDATA method). In the future, please do us the same courtesy before calling us out for lacking features we actually implement.
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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#12 Post by SYSTEM » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:30 am

JohnTHaller wrote:
webfork wrote:I thought that too, but I think the question should not be whether PortableApps already carries the majority of entries. We should be talking about which one is better. As with KDE and Gnome, the competition between the two projects benefits everyone and its my view that PFWC should let the best proggie win. As with the LibreOffice issue SYSTEM brought up, PFWC can switch to Inkscape Portable and then switch back to X-Inkscape again if there's a compelling reason.
I don't think that's really the case overall. I believe PFC's general policy is to link the the portable version that the publisher provides/supports or instructions on how to extract a portable version from their normal version. This is the case with multiple app listings that are not stealth and have things break portably as you move machines as long as they mostly work. The PortableApps.com versions are listed as alternatives in these cases despite being demonstrably superior (stealth, fully portable and even allowing things like most recent files to continue working, etc).

The exception is listings like Pidgin where the instructions for making a portable version are quite convoluted and resulted in an only partially portable app or VLC where there is no official portable version and the old instructions result in a mostly non-portable app with major functionality like the music library being non-functional.
We don't have any official policy.

Our target is to list the best option as the main entry and other ones as alternatives.

But...

What is the definition of 'best'?

Exactly. There isn't one.

For example, I use the official portable version of Notepad++. I know that Notepad++ Portable and X-Notepad++ are more portable, but I find the official portable version better than either of them (a bit lower usage of disk space and memory, no splash screen, etc.). As a result, I'll object to switching the Notepad++ entry is someone suggests that. I don't want any entry to be switched to a worse option.

In general, the TPFC members dislike wrappers. The reason is simple: many people have registered to TPFC after starting to dislike wrappers. Why would any of them register to the PortableApps.com or winPenPack forums? (Yes, I'm aware of CruelCoke...)

----

I find opinions here about PA.c and WPP are much weaker than opinions about wrappers in general. Hopefully the discussion about X-Inkscape and Inkscape Portable will be productive and focus on facts. :)

My opinion? Not telling, because I don't use Inkscape myself.
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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#13 Post by webfork » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:42 am

Much of my response is here, but I'd also like to add that a discussion with a friend last night emphasized for me that software support on open source projects is important and I don't want to point to software the developers are going to be annoyed/confused by. As a bug tester, if I write up a bug report and they just throw it out because its an unauthorized version, that's also not good.

Danix: as such, I encourage you to contact the developers (as with the RedNotebook epsisode) and ask them if they would be willing to support your software as well as the PA version they're linking to. Currently, X-Inkscape doesn't appear to be mentioned anywhere on their site (according to Google).
Last edited by webfork on Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: (bug writing issue)

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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#14 Post by JohnTHaller » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:28 pm

webfork wrote:Danix: as such, I encourage you to contact the developers (as with the RedNotebook epsisode) and ask them if they would be willing to support your software as well as the PA version they're linking to.
Unlike Rednotebook, Inkscape isn't linking to an Inkscape Portable package that PortableApps.com has created and is hosting and supporting, Inkscape is distributing Inkscape Portable themselves. It is packaged using our open source software and with our assistance, but it is Inkscape's app.
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Re: Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inks

#15 Post by webfork » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:11 pm

JohnTHaller wrote:Unlike Rednotebook, Inkscape isn't linking to an Inkscape Portable package that PortableApps.com has created and is hosting and supporting, Inkscape is distributing Inkscape Portable themselves. It is packaged using our open source software and with our assistance, but it is Inkscape's app.
As far as I can tell, that is the case. However, I'd still like to give Danix an opportunity to get the developers to consider the WinPenPack alternative. Assuming other forum members agree that official developer support is important, an endorsement either way by Inkscape should resolve this issue.
Last edited by webfork on Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: (fixed bad wording)

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