Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inkscape

[Danix]

Danix: Is this accurate? Is Inkscape Portable superior in terms of size/portability?

As Haller has confirmed that Inskape Portable has not full support to Recent Files paths now I can say YES, if this is the requirement to be listed on TPFC.

Danix: as such, I encourage you to contact the developers (as with the RedNotebook epsisode) and ask them if they would be willing to support your software as well as the PA version they're linking to.

About X-RedNotebook, since the wpp version has reported on the official website, why it doesn't appear on TPFC? http://www.portablefreeware.com/index.php?id=2086?

At this point in the conversation, I'm starting to lean back to my original position as the WPP crew doesn't seem interested in getting consideration from the Inkscape folks.

About this point has already answered ZioZione http://www.portablefreeware.com/forums/ ... 641#p39641

Why would it be necessary to contact the developer to get them to give blessing to a 3rd party solution unless there is a bias favoring that package over the official one?

Perhaps because PA is not the only project that develops portable applications? But there are others similar projects?

I don't think its UPX compression. X-Inkscape is drawn from a different version (0.48.2 r9819) than Inkscape Portable (0.48.1). A good part of the size difference appears to come from some additional LOCALE files, which probably means more language support. I couldn't find a changelog for the r9819 version.
As a side note, the PA version is dramatically smaller if you don't check multi-language at extract (78 megs English-only vs. 143 megs).

About this point has already answered zandet2 http://www.portablefreeware.com/forums/ ... 580#p39580

If I recall correctly, it was Chris Morgan who added this feature in Inkscape for Inkscape Portable and had it added to the documentation. Or, at the very least, it was he who helped them add it. That's why it's named "INKSCAPE_PORTABLE_..." I figured you saw it in our configuration and used it from there. But whether you got it from us or from the docs is fine and doesn't really matter.

Frankly I have difficulty understanding you. Before you say that we have copied your method, but now that "whether you got it from us or from the docs is fine and doesn't really matter".

That's why it's named "INKSCAPE_PORTABLE_..."

Sorry but neither "INKSCAPE" nor "PORTABLE" are names that identify PA.

I think you'll find that many of your false positives also originate from your AutoIT launchers due to the fact that AutoIT is popular with malware writers.

Not only. Many files belonging to programs themselves.

The only thing I personally have a problem with is trying to make whether X-Inkscape remains as the primary listing about 'fairness' because PortableApps.com has more listings. Inkscape Portable is the portable version distributed by Inkscape, so it should be listed first. I don't see the logic in second-guessing the publisher here and would likewise say that the main listing should be X-Inkscape if that was the version they published.

This means all PA versions listed on TPFC and not present on authors website can be replaced by wpp versions? As has been demonstrated (and as Haller admitted), all have problems with paths, so they should be listed as alternative to wpp versions. Among other things, other users have noticed this http://www.portablefreeware.com/forums/ ... 597#p39597. But, to end this ridiculous competition, I think it's better the first program that's listed gets supremacy. I had reported X-Inkscape and a few others programs in 2006 to Andrew directly via e-mail and it seem right they stay where they are.

Many of our apps are more portable than their WinPenPack equivalents.

It's really funny that you continue to say this, since many users have reported that PA applications are not full-path portable. And you affirm yourself that "a handful of apps aren't yet full-path portable as they are using older launcher code that hasn't been updated in a long time." I do not know where you're trying to go with these statements. Even Naxalite recently tested X-LibreOffice and LibreOffice Portable, getting these results http://www.portablefreeware.com/forums/ ... 237#p33237. Obviously LibreOffice Portable has the same (and other) problems. So, please, verify properly before making false claims.

In terms of additional functionality, we're experimenting with allowing the installer to remove additional languages in the current LibreOffice Portable release. We've gotten some great positive feedback on it and will likely implement this directly in our installer-proper in the near future, meaning additional apps can take advantage of it. We'll also be getting these strings translated into the 71 languages supported by the PortableApps.com Installer as well so that no one at all will be confused.

Great!

This functionality is already present in the current (and previous) release of X-LibreOffice. See here for 3.3.x and here for 3.4.x. Each package includes all 104 languages and offers to the user the option to choose one of available languages, including the dictionary of chosen language, removing all other languages. Its size, once installed, is about 350 MB (excluded Java). View images: language selection and dictionary selection

In addition, the X-Inkscape version has jumped the gun and released as official 0.48.2 before it has been officially released by the Inkscape devs. According to the Inkscape site, 0.48.1 is still the official release even though they have 0.48.2 in both standard and portable forms available on SourceForge. Until a given publisher announces a release, you can't really call a given piece of software 'final' as it could easily be pulled or revised.

webfork, now I have separated two versions: X-Inkscape 0.48.2-1 - X-Inkscape 0.48.1-2.

[SYSTEM]

About X-RedNotebook, since the wpp version has reported on the official website, why it doesn't appear on TPFC? http://www.portablefreeware.com/index.php?id=2086?

Simply because no one had suggested listing it in the entry. I have added a link to the X-RedNotebook page, updated the entry to version 1.1.8 and extended extraction instructions.

Feel free to continue link suggestions in the future, especially if the WPP version has advantages over the main entry.

In terms of additional functionality, we're experimenting with allowing the installer to remove additional languages in the current LibreOffice Portable release. We've gotten some great positive feedback on it and will likely implement this directly in our installer-proper in the near future, meaning additional apps can take advantage of it. We'll also be getting these strings translated into the 71 languages supported by the PortableApps.com Installer as well so that no one at all will be confused.

Great!

This functionality is already present in the current (and previous) release of X-LibreOffice. See here for 3.3.x and here for 3.4.x. Each package includes all 104 languages and offers to the user the option to choose one of available languages, including the dictionary of chosen language, removing all other languages. Its size, once installed, is about 350 MB (excluded Java). View images: language selection and dictionary selection

Since you quoted my post, I'll answer.

First, I'm aware of that. I still use X-LibreOffice myself.

However, I also use eight PortableApps.com applications. What John posted means that some of them will shrink. I'll gain more disk space without resorting to anything problematic (such as stronger and slower UPX compression).

[ZioZione]

Hi JohnTHaller,

I think that the problem pointed out by zandet2 is another one: if a (not English mother language, let's say Italian) user wants to install Inkscape Portable localized in Italian, could remain a little confused if, after choosing Italian as installation language (I perfectly know that is just the localization of the strings during the installation... but I am a quite skilled user... ), it finds that he MUST ANYWAY install English version (also if not wanted) AND also ALL Additional Languages (while he wants just italian)

Like I said, no one has ever had this issue previously to this discussion thread and the concern has only been expressed by WinPenPack advocates. I do agree with you that it could be better, but it wasn't a priority previously because no one had any issues. We support more languages and have more users of different languages than WinPenPack does, so if this was a concern among users, we'd have gotten a lot of flack from our German, Russian, Japanese, etc users.

This is a common problem: until nobody signal an issue on a program, it works well and is perfect. In the past, sometimes we too fall in this false acknowledgement... In these last months we are studying a better solution for programs localization, so is nice to hear that in the future also PA will be more sensible about it.
I think that a more frequent exchange of these concerns between winPenPack and PortableApps "advocates" (the final judges should be solely the users) could take a lot of benefit for both our projects... I think also that the best tester is a skilled user who ABSOLUTELY WANTS to find issues so I encourage you to continue in this direction (as we will do), but maybe our respective forums could be a better place to prosecute this discussion, because I think that, at this point, we are occuping too much of the TPFC forum space...

About the absence of issues, I know that what I am saying could sound incredible for you, but in the world exists a lot of people that don't speaks English... A problem regarding the language of the user interface could be pointed out only by an user that don't speaks English (for the others, of course, is not an issue, but just a temporary bore), but how can such user signal it in the PA site, that is entirely in English? It must be motivated enough to find some friend that translate its request in English and then signal the issue on PA site... not so presumable...
From my experience, just really motivated and skilled user perform issue signal. All other users both search help from a friend or simply delete the program...

winPenpack project has born also for this reason, that is for giving to Italian users the possibility to have portable programs that, by default (once in a while), have Italian language interfaces, and also a support for their issues (both in Italian and in English). But, of course, we can do much better than this...

Best Regards
ZioZione

[JohnTHaller]

As Haller has confirmed that Inskape Portable has not full support to Recent Files paths now I can say YES, if this is the requirement to be listed on TPFC.

The current release does not, 0.84.2-1 will once it is actually released.

Perhaps because PA is not the only project that develops portable applications? But there are others similar projects?

This is a straw man, Danix. Inkscape Portable has their own portable version. They used out tools to make it.

Frankly I have difficulty understanding you. Before you say that we have copied your method, but now that "whether you got it from us or from the docs is fine and doesn't really matter".

Sorry but neither "INKSCAPE" nor "PORTABLE" are names that identify PA.

I meant that it doesn't matter whether you copied it directly from us or used the Inkscape documentation for the feature we helped add. We picked that variable name

As has been demonstrated (and as Haller admitted), all have problems with paths, so they should be listed as alternative to wpp versions.

Danix, please stop taking my statements out of context. I said this particular version of Inkscape (0.48.1) had a 3 year old launcher and didn't support paths and I was working with Chris Morgan to ensure 0.84.2 used our newer launcher. As it is Inkscape's app (not ours), they ultimately have control over that. Stating that all our apps have path problems as a result is just plain misleading to others.

I had reported X-Inkscape and a few others programs in 2006 to Andrew directly via e-mail and it seem right they stay where they are.

That was fine when Inkscape wasn't offering a portable version themselves. Now they are, as a result of the work we've been doing with them for 3 years. There was at least one other app that was originally an AppName Portable app but once the app itself was 'natively' portable, the listing was switched to be native first with ours as an alternate even though it was less portable by PortableApps.com's definition (most recently used files, etc). I had no problems with that switch either.

It's really funny that you continue to say this, since many users have reported that PA applications are not full-path portable. And you affirm yourself that "a handful of apps aren't yet full-path portable as they are using older launcher code that hasn't been updated in a long time."

Correct, there are a handful of our hundreds of apps that need an update. Inkscape is one of them, and it should be in the next release. Many of your apps simply don't handle things that ours have support for some time now, like proper extension portablity.

I do not know where you're trying to go with these statements. Even Naxalite recently tested X-LibreOffice and LibreOffice Portable, getting these results http://www.portablefreeware.com/forums/ ... 237#p33237. Obviously LibreOffice Portable has the same (and other) problems. So, please, verify properly before making false claims.

Why are you quoting an outdated bug report from 4 months ago listing issues that are already fixed? Again, Danix, please take the time to test the current version of one of our apps before making a false statement. This is the third time I have requested you do so in the last week when you've made outright false statements. When I've made any statements about WinPenPack's software, I've checked with the recent build to ensure my statement is accurate. I did not go on someone else's outdated comment or from my memory of testing it last year. It's only fair for you to give us the same courtesy.

[JohnTHaller]

About the absence of issues, I know that what I am saying could sound incredible for you, but in the world exists a lot of people that don't speaks English... A problem regarding the language of the user interface could be pointed out only by an user that don't speaks English (for the others, of course, is not an issue, but just a temporary bore), but how can such user signal it in the PA site, that is entirely in English? It must be motivated enough to find some friend that translate its request in English and then signal the issue on PA site... not so presumable.

We're well aware of that on PortableApps.com and we have millions of users who do not speak English. Some of them have posted on our forums or emailed us directly and we've used Google translate or one of our own 4 dozen translators to communicate with them. Our site itself isn't yet fully multilingual (English, German and some Russian) due to some issues with our Drupal install, but it should be shortly to allow non-English speakers even greater access.

The great thing about our software is that non-English speakers can install and use our 'Next' platform and suite, including downloading and installing new apps, updating apps, backing up and more without needing to speak English. We have lots of distribution partners that distribute our platform on their sites explaining it all in their user's native language and, once the user downloads and picks their language in the platform installer, everything works in their chosen language from there on out.

[webfork]

We already contacted Inkscape, and now we are waiting for an answer from them.

Sounds good.

I think it will be a long jurney

I really would prefer we didn't wait too long for some kind of response from Inkscape. As I've said in previous posts, I think support is important, especially for projects like Inkscape. Even though they don't feel any bad feelings towards the WinPenPack project, they might simply not care and that's unfortunately the best answer we will get.

[webfork]

But, to end this ridiculous competition, I think it's better the first program that's listed gets supremacy.

Its true that:

• There might be only minor differences between the versions by PortableApps and WinPenPack (or Lupo Pensuite or some other future project)
• We're not going to get every software and we're not going to subject every program to intense scrutiny.
• There's still no clear standard for what portable features are most important.

Despite this, where possible I'd like to give attention to the best project. Once the dust settles, I'm more than willing to sit down and verify claims of portable software quality and make a recommendation.

webfork, now I have separated two versions: X-Inkscape 0.48.2-1 - X-Inkscape 0.48.1-2.

Sounds good. I'll post a note to the page.

About X-RedNotebook, since the wpp version has reported on the official website, why it doesn't appear on TPFC?

I have added a link to the X-RedNotebook page, updated the entry to version 1.1.8 and extended extraction instructions.

Thanks SYSTEM. Danix: that was a mistake on my part. I should have added that months ago.

at this point, we are occuping too much of the TPFC forum space

Quite alright. Additionally, the discussion between WPP and PA advocates has been illuminating (at least for me).

[Danix]

About X-RedNotebook, since the wpp version has reported on the official website, why it doesn't appear on TPFC? http://www.portablefreeware.com/index.php?id=2086

I have added a link to the X-RedNotebook page, updated the entry to version 1.1.8 and extended extraction instructions.

Thanks SYSTEM. Danix: that was a mistake on my part. I should have added that months ago.

Webfork, no problem. Thanks to both for adding also X-RedNotebook to the entry.

Feel free to continue link suggestions in the future, especially if the WPP version has advantages over the main entry.

Sometime ago I tried to add an entry, X-DataCrow, (entry - forum post), but evidently nobody likes this program (or wpp programs maybe? ), as no R5 user voted for it, so it has still the "private" status.


[Moderator note: responses to the X-Datacrow question have been split into a separate topic.]

[Danix]

Why are you quoting an outdated bug report from 4 months ago listing issues that are already fixed? Again, Danix, please take the time to test the current version of one of our apps before making a false statement.

Sorry, JohnTHaller. I've not tested the latest LibreOffice portable release.
You are right. Now LibreOffice Portable, inspired by X-LibreOffice, seems to correctly update recent files!
As for the case of variable INKSCAPE_PORTABLE_PROFILE_DIR, both our projects take advantage of the reciprocal cooperation and the exchange of ideas.

[webfork]

I'd still like to give Danix an opportunity to get the developers to consider the WinPenPack alternative. Assuming other forum members agree that official developer support is important, an endorsement either way by Inkscape should resolve this issue.

Well, I gave it more than a month and the developers haven't changed their portable listing and there doesn't appear to be any discussion or mention on the Inkscape site.

As discussed before, in the absence of a natively portable version or request by the developer in some format, I'd like to list whatever the dev is pointing to.

[ZioZione]

Hi webfork,
we contacted privately Inkscape. This is because you don't find any reference to X-Inkscape into their forum. Unfortunately, despite our repeated emails, we still didn't receive any answer from them.
Obviously, we must assume that they are not interested in our product, but sincerely we cannot understand all this silence. X-Inkscape remains a really good portable version of Inkscape, also if they persist to ignore its existence...
Anyway, thank you for your "patience" and for believing in us... also if just for one month...
Best Regards
ZioZione

[webfork]

we contacted privately Inkscape. This is because you don't find any reference to X-Inkscape into their forum. Unfortunately, despite our repeated emails, we still didn't receive any answer from them.
Obviously, we must assume that they are not interested in our product, but sincerely we cannot understand all this silence. X-Inkscape remains a really good portable version of Inkscape, also if they persist to ignore its existence...
Anyway, thank you for your "patience" and for believing in us... also if just for one month...

It's disappointing that Inkscape didn't even respond to your emails. I'm definitely a fan of WinPenPack and have in the past recommended their applications over a PA-format. However, in the absence of a natively portable version, I'd like to link to what the developer posts as their portable download.

I'll go ahead and revise the entry.

Edit: as the official version is 0.48.2 and not V0.48.2-1 [rev11], the entry is showing up on the front page as an update, but this is not a new version.

[webfork]

Old thread update:

• Has anyone tested the 7z version that Inkscape is offering? Is this natively portable? http://downloads.sourceforge.net/inksca ... 1-win32.7z
• There's also a 64-bit portable version that I can't currently test - http://www.partha.com/downloads/Inkscap ... -64bit.exe

Edit: was linking to the 64-bit GIMP ... updated

[joby_toss]

Inkscape-0.48.4-1-win32.7z saves settings in AppData. The .paf version is hosted on their SF account, too.

The 64 bit version you posted is for Gimp?

[webfork]

Inkscape-0.48.4-1-win32.7z saves settings in AppData. The .paf version is hosted on their SF account, too.

Cool, thanks.

The 64 bit version you posted is for Gimp?

Whoops ... link fixed. This is from http://www.partha.com/ , which Inkscape is pointing to. I'm guessing if it's like the above link, it's saving to AppData.