Switching X-Inkscape to Inkspace Portable hosted by Inkscape

[webfork]

And, as you already stated:

Nobody replied when I posted about this a few weeks ago so I just considered it a non-problem. I obviously have no issue.

So, why the change?

A program needs an advocate. If nobody cares about an entry, when links die or websites change, nobody's going to notice. Because X-Inkscape initially didn't appear to have anyone speaking up for it, PA's version seemed more likely to stay alive.

Additionally, it was Chris Morgan who first asked to be considered for primary listing and didn't get noticed, which is partly my fault. I don't want to discourage Danix's involvement by ignoring his request for consideration as well.

[JohnTHaller]

About this, there can be a small misundarstanding in that procedure for non-english users: if I choose the "installation" procedure in my native language (e.g. france or german), when I choose "remove additional language" I can suppose that my native language will remain (I've choosen it before), but during the extraction all the language will be striped out, so at the and only the default english remain.

You're confusing this app with another one. Inkscape Portable's installer shows two options:
- Inkscape Portable (English) [Required]
- Additional Languages

When you hover over Additional Languages, the hover state says "Add multilingual support for this app". When installing in English, Additional Languages is unchecked by default. When installing in another language, Additional Languages is checked by default. In over 2 years, we've had no issues with anyone selecting the wrong box.

Your quote of "Remove Additional Languages" is actually from the LibreOffice Portable installer. In that, the optional selection is called "Remove Additional Languages" as you said. When you select it, it removes all languages but retains both English and whatever language you are installing in (e.g. French or German), exactly as you would expect it to. We've had no confusion from anyone with this installer either.

[JohnTHaller]

A program needs an advocate. If nobody cares about an entry, when links die or websites change, nobody's going to notice. Because X-Inkscape initially didn't appear to have anyone speaking up for it, PA's version seemed more likely to stay alive.

X-Inkscape has advocates in both Danix and zandet2 as well as rikylov. Whereas Chris Morgan, guinness and SYSTEM (and originally you) agreed with me that it should be changed since Inkscape Portable is the portable version being distributed by the publisher. X-Inkscape doesn't need saving as a simple change from being the primary listing to being an Alternate one isn't going to make it stop being developed. Our software is listed as an alternate for many listings in the database but that didn't affect our development either. A simple change like this shouldn't be so earth-shattering, but I figured there would be some people that would feel it is, which is why I created this topic in the first place.

[Hydaral]

Let me explain more in details. It's true that Inkscape Portable maintains the recent files list, and is also true that it updates the drive letter within the settings files. But, moving Portable Inkscape folder anywhere (in the same disk/stick or into another disk), your affirmation is not completely true.

This is the biggest reason I try not to use PA apps if I have a choice, the apps are not 100% portable WRT paths. I don't see why they can't search and replace the whole path instead of just the drive letter.

I didn't know the Winpenpack apps had paths handled correctly, looks like I'll be switching to Winpenpack apps then, thanks.

[rikylov]

X-Inkscape has advocates in both Danix and zandet2 as well as rikylov.

Nope! I'm not advocate of anybody! I'm just an end-user that reports a personal feeling. IMHO all this disease is quite incredible! First or Second doesn't matter. Anyway most important thing is end-user satisfaction and feedback (see also Hydaral's comment )

[SYSTEM]

Some corrections.

A program needs an advocate. If nobody cares about an entry, when links die or websites change, nobody's going to notice. Because X-Inkscape initially didn't appear to have anyone speaking up for it, PA's version seemed more likely to stay alive.

X-Inkscape has advocates in both Danix and zandet2 as well as rikylov. Whereas Chris Morgan, guinness and SYSTEM (and originally you) agreed with me that it should be changed since Inkscape Portable is the portable version being distributed by the publisher.

I have explicitly refused to tell if I think that the entry should be switched.

My opinion? Not telling, because I don't use Inkscape myself.

I've also written that...

However, IMHO the wrappered version should always be listed as the main option if the publisher recommends it strongly enough.

...but it's just general text.

Again, we should be talking about which is the best option. People who actually use the application likely have the most information about that and they should be listened. (Joby_toss is the only member who has voted X-Inkscape, but unfortunately he/she hasn't posted to this thread.)

To make it clear: I think that the entry should be switched to Inkscape Portable, but I also think that my opinion should be ignored.

----

This is the biggest reason I try not to use PA apps if I have a choice, the apps are not 100% portable WRT paths. I don't see why they can't search and replace the whole path instead of just the drive letter.

I didn't know the Winpenpack apps had paths handled correctly, looks like I'll be switching to Winpenpack apps then, thanks.

Ability to replace paths was implemented in PortableApps.com Launcher 2.1.

http://portableapps.com/manuals/Portabl ... ory-moving

[zandet2]

When you hover over Additional Languages, the hover state says "Add multilingual support for this app". When installing in English, Additional Languages is unchecked by default. When installing in another language, Additional Languages is checked by default.

Sorry, but you are too much "english-centric".
Read all of what I write: before I choose Italian installation, then I deselect the additional languages (I have choose Italian before).
The mistake is due to the different level of the choices, the first one affects only in your installer, the second one is related to the program itself; if you write at the fisrt step clearly "This choice do not have any influence on the rest of the procedure", or "You must choose this if you want a language different from english whatever you choose before" on the second step, there will be no confusion.

In over 2 years, we've had no issues with anyone selecting the wrong box.

Oh, yes, because the solution was so simple: redoing the "installation" with the additional language selected...

Your quote of "Remove Additional Languages" is actually from the LibreOffice Portable installer. In that, the optional selection is called "Remove Additional Languages" as you said. When you select it, it removes all languages but retains both English and whatever language you are installing in (e.g. French or German), exactly as you would expect it to. We've had no confusion from anyone with this installer either.

When I report the text ("add multilanguage" or "remove additional") I was using my memory; I know I was talking about Inkscape, not LibreOffice.

Best regards
zandet2

[JohnTHaller]

This is the biggest reason I try not to use PA apps if I have a choice, the apps are not 100% portable WRT paths. I don't see why they can't search and replace the whole path instead of just the drive letter.

Most of PortableApps.com's apps are compatible with path changes now and our INI-based PA.c Launcher has support for path adjustments built right in. Many of our apps are more portable than their WinPenPack equivalents. A handful of apps aren't yet full-path portable as they are using older launcher code that hasn't been updated in a long time. Inkscape would be an example as I don't think that launcher has been updated since we started working with Inkscape 3 years ago (which is why I said above I contacted Chris Morgan about having it updated for the official 0.48.2 release when it finally happens). Whenever you encounter an app like that, please report it to us as a bug and we'll get it fixed up. We consider full path portability a requirement for all new apps unless there is a technical reason that renders it impossible (as used to be the case with uTorrent, for example, but isn't any longer).

I have explicitly refused to tell if I think that the entry should be switched.

Sorry about that, SYSTEM. I think I was looking at the wrong post when I typed that entry up.

Oh, yes, because the solution was so simple: redoing the "installation" with the additional language selected...

I mean no one has even reported any confusion with it due to the fact that the first line specifically says "(English)" and even folks who speak French or German understand that word. That's why there's been no confusion. We're going to be translating these strings shortly as well for non-platform users.

As an additional note, anyone performing the installation in conjunction with our platform's updater or built-in app store doesn't even see that screen as it is automatically selected and then the app language is picked both based on their preferred language.

[ZioZione]

Hi JohnTHaller,
I am ZioZione, of winPenPack Team, but I am an estimator of all the (well done) portable software.

Oh, yes, because the solution was so simple: redoing the "installation" with the additional language selected...

I mean no one has even reported any confusion with it due to the fact that the first line specifically says "(English)" and even folks who speak French or German understand that word. That's why there's been no confusion. We're going to be translating these strings shortly as well for non-platform users.

I think that the problem pointed out by zandet2 is another one: if a (not English mother language, let's say Italian) user wants to install Inkscape Portable localized in Italian, could remain a little confused if, after choosing Italian as installation language (I perfectly know that is just the localization of the strings during the installation... but I am a quite skilled user... ), it finds that he MUST ANYWAY install English version (also if not wanted) AND also ALL Additional Languages (while he wants just italian). This fact could be OK for English language people, but force all the other user to install ALL languages, annulling "de facto" one of the main advantages of Inkscape Portable (small footprint) vs winPenpack X-Inkscape... Without talking about the side effect that, at first execution of Inkscape Portable, the interface is always in English, and the user must navigate into an english interface to find the correct setting for changing the language, that could not be exactly easy for everyone...

As an additional note, anyone performing the installation in conjunction with our platform's updater or built-in app store doesn't even see that screen as it is automatically selected and then the app language is picked both based on their preferred language.

This is OK, another time, just for English language people, because if I had your suite installed on my PC (Italian Windows) and I want to install a particular program in English (because, for example, its italian translation is horrible... not so rare... ) I should switch my suite preferred language to English, install that program, then switch the language back to Italian... I am missing something? The same question arises for the updates, or the updater recognizes each program locale and updates accordingly?
Best Regards
ZioZione

[webfork]

A program needs an advocate. If nobody cares about an entry, when links die or websites change, nobody's going to notice. Because X-Inkscape initially didn't appear to have anyone speaking up for it, PA's version seemed more likely to stay alive.

X-Inkscape has advocates in both Danix and zandet2 as well as rikylov.

I started out saying that it was fine if we switched to the PortableApps version because nobody from WinPenPack seemed to care. I changed my mind because someone from their group spoke up. In other words, there was no advocate or the WPP version. An advocate came forward and I wanted to encourage their involvement.

At this point in the conversation, I'm starting to lean back to my original position as the WPP crew doesn't seem interested in getting consideration from the Inkscape folks.

[ZioZione]

Hi webfork,

At this point in the conversation, I'm starting to lean back to my original position as the WPP crew doesn't seem interested in getting consideration from the Inkscape folks.

please, wait a moment, don't despair... we are (and have always been) interested that the authors be aware of our wrappers of their programs... Unfortunately, frequently this interest is not mutual. And this not happens for the quality of our portabilization (often excellent and better than other), but simply because they think that their programs are already portable (not always true, as you in TPFC forum perfectly know...).

We already contacted Inkscape, and now we are waiting for an answer from them.

I think it will be a long jurney, because they already have a portable version and could also think that is the best one... at least until they will examinate X-Inkscape

Best Regards
ZioZione

[JohnTHaller]

I think that the problem pointed out by zandet2 is another one: if a (not English mother language, let's say Italian) user wants to install Inkscape Portable localized in Italian, could remain a little confused if, after choosing Italian as installation language (I perfectly know that is just the localization of the strings during the installation... but I am a quite skilled user... ), it finds that he MUST ANYWAY install English version (also if not wanted) AND also ALL Additional Languages (while he wants just italian)

Like I said, no one has ever had this issue previously to this discussion thread and the concern has only been expressed by WinPenPack advocates. I do agree with you that it could be better, but it wasn't a priority previously because no one had any issues. We support more languages and have more users of different languages than WinPenPack does, so if this was a concern among users, we'd have gotten a lot of flack from our German, Russian, Japanese, etc users.

As far as size, English is by far the most widely-used language in software, so it makes sense to handle it separately. The argument is a bit of a straw man as a large percentage of these apps have English built-in, compiled in the EXE itself, so regardless of whether the user wants it or not, they're going to have the English translations installed. And many apps that have separate translation files use English as a fallback when a given translation file (like Italian) doesn't have a string translated, so you may need those English translations there. Thus, having English required makes sense.

In terms of additional functionality, we're experimenting with allowing the installer to remove additional languages in the current LibreOffice Portable release. We've gotten some great positive feedback on it and will likely implement this directly in our installer-proper in the near future, meaning additional apps can take advantage of it. We'll also be getting these strings translated into the 71 languages supported by the PortableApps.com Installer as well so that no one at all will be confused.

This is OK, another time, just for English language people, because if I had your suite installed on my PC (Italian Windows) and I want to install a particular program in English (because, for example, its italian translation is horrible... not so rare... ) I should switch my suite preferred language to English, install that program, then switch the language back to Italian... I am missing something? The same question arises for the updates, or the updater recognizes each program locale and updates accordingly?

Our apps all automatically switch to the language you currently have the platform in regardless of the way you installed them by default. You can easily untick the box in our Options screen for "Use this language for all portable apps" (see screenshots in the announcement) and then the apps will not automatically change based on the platform language. Each app can be manually configured to use its own language either within the app itself (if there is a GUI for it) or by editing an INI (for apps like GIMP that use an environment variable) just as you would if running the app without our platform. We'll even be adding in the ability to disable automatic language switching for individual apps in an upcoming release of our fast-moving 'Next' platform that our users are using now. If it doesn't make it into the dozen or so new features we introduce in this week's release, it'll be coming along in next week's release or shortly afterwards. If you have any suggestions for new options, I'm all ears as we've been adding a ton lately.

[JohnTHaller]

At this point in the conversation, I'm starting to lean back to my original position as the WPP crew doesn't seem interested in getting consideration from the Inkscape folks.

We've been working with Inkscape for years now on this and helped get Inkscape itself modified to better support portability. It would seem a bit... disingenuous, maybe?... for the WPP folks to be trying to make contact with the Inkscape devs now just because X-Inkscape's listing is being changed on PFC.

[SYSTEM]

In terms of additional functionality, we're experimenting with allowing the installer to remove additional languages in the current LibreOffice Portable release. We've gotten some great positive feedback on it and will likely implement this directly in our installer-proper in the near future, meaning additional apps can take advantage of it. We'll also be getting these strings translated into the 71 languages supported by the PortableApps.com Installer as well so that no one at all will be confused.

Great!

[ZioZione]

Hi JohnTHaller,

At this point in the conversation, I'm starting to lean back to my original position as the WPP crew doesn't seem interested in getting consideration from the Inkscape folks.

We've been working with Inkscape for years now on this and helped get Inkscape itself modified to better support portability. It would seem a bit... disingenuous, maybe?... for the WPP folks to be trying to make contact with the Inkscape devs now just because X-Inkscape's listing is being changed on PFC.

no, just because now Inkscape Portable is developed directly from them, and we think that, if they like Inkscape Portable (with its actual problems of path normalization), X-Inkscape, that not suffer of such problem, could be at least as much interesting for them... The listing in TPFC, even though meaningful for us, became a side effect...
Also, keep in mind that is not the first time that we try to contact the authors of Inkscape. We always contact all the authors of the programs that we portabilize, and for us is an usual practice.
Or you are saying that only you can contact them and no one can do it too? I reject to believe it...
Best Regards
ZioZione