The recent discussion about wimpwall prompted me to make this poll.
Since I assume the polls don't allow multiple selections, I tried to cover all of the likely permutations of the various factors.
I'm personally in the very last category. I generally use 2 computers - my desktop and my laptop - but I occasionally use some things to help friends on their computers. I have a directory of no-install apps on a hard drive of each machine, and I synchronize those directories with each other through a Hamachi network and with a USB drive. I like only having to update applications once for both machines, and I have them available on the USB drive for the rare occasions that I use a different computer.
I guess you could call me a hobbyist or a collector, since I have hundreds of apps and never use most of them. It's nice that almost none of them are cluttering my registry or my filesystem.
Poll: What do you consider portable?
D'oh, none of those really fit me. I care about program portability and stealth (at least via a wrapper/launcher), but don't care at ALL about settings portability, framework requirements or admin-right requirements. This is for my personal use of course and I don't extend it to database stuff or when recommending things.
Most programs, if they do save a settings file, I empty it out and set it to read-only.
My goal is to not leave garbage on a host machine but I also don't care about keeping my own settings.
Queue
Most programs, if they do save a settings file, I empty it out and set it to read-only.
My goal is to not leave garbage on a host machine but I also don't care about keeping my own settings.
Queue
I selected "if settings are minimal, it's okay even if settings aren't portable", however .NET and Java are not acceptable for me.
And one more thing, maybe it's not a good place to write it, but I'll do it anyway.
People, stop using word "stealth" to describe programs that don't forget any info on host computers. It's totally misleading. It is impossible to write a program, whose actions are undetectable for admin, so stealth programs don't exist. We can see many questions about it on the internet, people who don't know computers too well think that they can hide they deeds. They can't.
I recommend a word "clean", but I'm not devoted to it.
And one more thing, maybe it's not a good place to write it, but I'll do it anyway.
People, stop using word "stealth" to describe programs that don't forget any info on host computers. It's totally misleading. It is impossible to write a program, whose actions are undetectable for admin, so stealth programs don't exist. We can see many questions about it on the internet, people who don't know computers too well think that they can hide they deeds. They can't.
I recommend a word "clean", but I'm not devoted to it.
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Ameri-CAIN
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:11 am
- Location: Orange County, California
I think it depends on the application, and how I intend to use it. Example: I like my IM client (pidgin) to be as clean as possible, because it is an App I may want to run from a remote computer away from the house. However on the flip side, I use a .NET application similar to UltraMon called DisplayFusion for Multiple Monitors. The only time I ever use it is at work and home.
I want Pidgin to work everywhere I run it from, and DisplayFusion is really only important to me at work and on my home desktop. Just as Garbanzo stated in the wimpwall thread, the more and more I get away from installing applications, the easier it makes things on me when I have to re-install the OS on my home machine.
I want Pidgin to work everywhere I run it from, and DisplayFusion is really only important to me at work and on my home desktop. Just as Garbanzo stated in the wimpwall thread, the more and more I get away from installing applications, the easier it makes things on me when I have to re-install the OS on my home machine.
I voted for 1 but really you have them listed in the order of my favorites; by this i mean if I really like the progie I'll still use it even if it has .net or java requirements (in fact Keepass the only reason I never went to 2.x is not all the computers I need my passwords on are going to be able to even run .Net 2 but if they were able to I would go to KP 2.x)
I use my porties to mostly help other people with their computer problems and therefore (not knowing what I will encounter:windows 95
) it's best for me to have as little change to the other system as possible; however I often suggest some one use a porti if their main drive is too full (my sister in law uses Mozilla Prods so I'm trying to get her to move to J haller's Portables so she can put them on her external drive but still make it so she can make them her default programs (which is highly un portable)
I use my porties to mostly help other people with their computer problems and therefore (not knowing what I will encounter:windows 95
) it's best for me to have as little change to the other system as possible; however I often suggest some one use a porti if their main drive is too full (my sister in law uses Mozilla Prods so I'm trying to get her to move to J haller's Portables so she can put them on her external drive but still make it so she can make them her default programs (which is highly un portable)I vote for completely portable as in the first choice. I am new to this forum and just learning more about the portable community so please excuse a perhaps naive set of ideas.
I have been looking around at the the various sites involving something that can run from a usb drive and most are a sham. They all involve apps with no formal setup installation but after that the games start. Directly running apps frequently use the registry or profile folders to store settings. Some sites only have nagware with an up-sell agenda or shareware. Others demand a great deal of personal information to register then just have links back to this site.
The no-install.com site is as advertised and that is good. I really only found 2 sites doing original honest broad-spectrum portable work. This one and winpenpack. It's harder to tell with winpenpack because the Italian gets in the way a bit. Translators have trouble with technical terms. Sadly both seem to be slowly drifting toward the no installation paradigm.
I don't think of myself as a purist rather just someone who would rather carry around a usb stick instead of a laptop. Fits in the pocket better. Since, now days, one is almost always near a computer, a portable environment should be one that depends only on the most rudimentary support from the operating system and is polite enough to not interfere with the host machine's setup or leave bunch of junk on it since it is someone else's computer. If I am in front of my own machine I don't need any of this stuff. The application pool is much richer when function and cost are the driving factors.
I guess polite is called stealth in this community but it seems a misnomer since I think of stealth as sneaky not polite. I think the term turns people off.
I have been looking around at the the various sites involving something that can run from a usb drive and most are a sham. They all involve apps with no formal setup installation but after that the games start. Directly running apps frequently use the registry or profile folders to store settings. Some sites only have nagware with an up-sell agenda or shareware. Others demand a great deal of personal information to register then just have links back to this site.
The no-install.com site is as advertised and that is good. I really only found 2 sites doing original honest broad-spectrum portable work. This one and winpenpack. It's harder to tell with winpenpack because the Italian gets in the way a bit. Translators have trouble with technical terms. Sadly both seem to be slowly drifting toward the no installation paradigm.
I don't think of myself as a purist rather just someone who would rather carry around a usb stick instead of a laptop. Fits in the pocket better. Since, now days, one is almost always near a computer, a portable environment should be one that depends only on the most rudimentary support from the operating system and is polite enough to not interfere with the host machine's setup or leave bunch of junk on it since it is someone else's computer. If I am in front of my own machine I don't need any of this stuff. The application pool is much richer when function and cost are the driving factors.
I guess polite is called stealth in this community but it seems a misnomer since I think of stealth as sneaky not polite. I think the term turns people off.
Justsky:
That was the best first post I've ever read in any forum if we had kudos here I'd give you one just for that post. You are correct most things advertised as portable are using it as a euphemism for no installer and oft times write a lot to the registry and/or host computer. This is actually the cause of much "discussion" (read fights
) here at TPFC and the impetus for this very Thread.
One of the things that I love about Andrew's (he's our host here at TPFC) site is he lays out the information so each user can choose each progie by their own feelings.
That was the best first post I've ever read in any forum if we had kudos here I'd give you one just for that post. You are correct most things advertised as portable are using it as a euphemism for no installer and oft times write a lot to the registry and/or host computer. This is actually the cause of much "discussion" (read fights
) here at TPFC and the impetus for this very Thread. I can see what you mean by this.guess polite is called stealth in this community but it seems a misnomer since I think of stealth as sneaky not polite. I think the term turns people off.
One of the things that I love about Andrew's (he's our host here at TPFC) site is he lays out the information so each user can choose each progie by their own feelings.
The portable environment IS the future!
The host machines will be the slaves of portable devices (with complete OS - Applications - Personal settings combo) as the portable devices are our slaves! (There are solutions even today but everyone has a flaw: not enough performance, not much compatibility, not a widely known format, some even illegals etc.)
Sadly, this is just my wish, so for now i stick to the first option of the poll.
The host machines will be the slaves of portable devices (with complete OS - Applications - Personal settings combo) as the portable devices are our slaves! (There are solutions even today but everyone has a flaw: not enough performance, not much compatibility, not a widely known format, some even illegals etc.)
Sadly, this is just my wish, so for now i stick to the first option of the poll.
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Master of Dice
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:44 am
Maybe in your country, but in mine - it isn't. And considering that there are incompatibilities between .NET versions and host needs to have all .NET 1, 2 & 3 - I've never seen them all on a single machine (though I never searched for this), so it's probably very rare.Master of Dice wrote:.net is nowadays really installed on every pc.
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Master of Dice
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:44 am
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dennis123123
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:44 pm
My definition:
If I can unpack it from a zip file without installing, its portable.
(unless .net+java are required, then its not worth the hassle until everyone is forced to use vista and up)
All the other people who said there is no such thing as a stealth app are right, windows saves all kinds of recent usage info. So who cares if a new reg key is created with some toolbar sizes in it? Not me
If I can unpack it from a zip file without installing, its portable.
(unless .net+java are required, then its not worth the hassle until everyone is forced to use vista and up)
All the other people who said there is no such thing as a stealth app are right, windows saves all kinds of recent usage info. So who cares if a new reg key is created with some toolbar sizes in it? Not me
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Cornflower
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:58 am
- Location: Canada's capital
My usability/portability index (made up now, but this poll gives me impetus to consider what is important to me)
In a zip file +1
no setup.exe +1
No registry except mru locations +1
all files in one folder +1
all files under 1 meg +1
all files under 100k +3
single .exe +9
two files with same filename root +4
three files with same root +3
two or three files with different roots +1
all filenames begin with same root +1
can run without a language file +1
instructions for minimum file needs (eg: "only .exe plus lang file") +1
Can run without admin access +1
can install, move, and uninstall to make portable +1
.net -15
non-embedded java -9
embedded java -2
user size and placement in registry (HKCU) -1
hkLM\Software\nameofsoftware in registry -3
other registry -15
created icons in start menu, desktop, quicklaunch -1 each (unless given choice)
I'm sure I will change the weights of various things within 15 minutes, but this has been a fun exercise.
In a zip file +1
no setup.exe +1
No registry except mru locations +1
all files in one folder +1
all files under 1 meg +1
all files under 100k +3
single .exe +9
two files with same filename root +4
three files with same root +3
two or three files with different roots +1
all filenames begin with same root +1
can run without a language file +1
instructions for minimum file needs (eg: "only .exe plus lang file") +1
Can run without admin access +1
can install, move, and uninstall to make portable +1
.net -15
non-embedded java -9
embedded java -2
user size and placement in registry (HKCU) -1
hkLM\Software\nameofsoftware in registry -3
other registry -15
created icons in start menu, desktop, quicklaunch -1 each (unless given choice)
I'm sure I will change the weights of various things within 15 minutes, but this has been a fun exercise.
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Master of Dice
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:44 am
For me:
.net +-0
non-embedded java -5
embedded java -5
non-embedded java -5:
because when it need java and you don't have you still can use it with a portable java. so -5 because you have to manually link to it.
embedded java -5:
because if you have 5 apps with embedded java, you lose a lot of space
.net +-0
non-embedded java -5
embedded java -5
non-embedded java -5:
because when it need java and you don't have you still can use it with a portable java. so -5 because you have to manually link to it.
embedded java -5:
because if you have 5 apps with embedded java, you lose a lot of space
....
This is my definition of actual portability:
It must be completely portable and stealth with no .NET or Java dependencies (or dependencies at all unless they are portable as well and fit within the directory of the application)
But this is usually what I follow: settings portable and have no dependencies, but stealth is not important. (if a reg key is left such as window location o well, it truly depends on the application though)
Granted if I can get actual portability I am a happy camper (most of the apps I use are stealth anyways. Most Corporate Environments have Windows Update on by default and usually install SP3 along with other updates.... Sure .net is slowly becoming to be a standard installed dependency it is just for my own personal preference to dislike all .net applications (because they don't work on all pc's (since not ALL xp installations have it installed (prime example being this one (never going to install sp3
)
It must be completely portable and stealth with no .NET or Java dependencies (or dependencies at all unless they are portable as well and fit within the directory of the application)
But this is usually what I follow: settings portable and have no dependencies, but stealth is not important. (if a reg key is left such as window location o well, it truly depends on the application though)
Granted if I can get actual portability I am a happy camper (most of the apps I use are stealth anyways. Most Corporate Environments have Windows Update on by default and usually install SP3 along with other updates.... Sure .net is slowly becoming to be a standard installed dependency it is just for my own personal preference to dislike all .net applications (because they don't work on all pc's (since not ALL xp installations have it installed (prime example being this one (never going to install sp3
)