Moderator edit: This thread is in response to this thread, but has been split into two to avoid a thread hijack.


lol

I suppose I should do something on that, given that we have several DJVU tools and no viewer. I had hoped one of the many PDF viewers out there would just add support for DJVU files.

Sumatra's developer is available to patches for his program that include DJVU support, but isn't pursuing it. PDF Xchange has discussed it but I couldn't figure out if they cared.

I think everyone's just waiting for a suite of utilities that does a whole lot of stuff to showcase DJVU and really see it shine over the Adobe format. I obviously hope that suite is portable.

Sadly, while doing research for this post, it looks like there are patents and commercial-use issues associated with this format similar to Adobe PDF. Apart from compression and security improvements, this is the primary reason to move your documents away from the PDF format. If I was an IP lawyer with a little time on my hands, I'd try to get them to license it in a more open/patent-free format.

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That link doesn't work. :/



Eh? According to the Wikipedia article where your link leads... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DjVu#Format_licensing)







In addition, I think PDF is not that bad. There are free PDF readers as well as free software that can create PDF documents. There is no hurry to abandon PDF, at least not yet.

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I guess djvu is an open and free format.

I Hope, as the friend that did a search for some suite or djvu viewer too. In my case, despite djvu be very little and fast comparable to pdf files. I just need a viewer, I'll not to try to convert my already books from .pdf to .djvu format. It would took me several decades to convert them lol

But, I'll try to peruse .djvu source codes and sites, maybe we can start a group of coders and make a very nice, small, assembly & C++ executable with old .ini style or whatever text file to save preferences and with a simple double click open the world of .djvu ebookz! <-- sound's poetry?

Sorry for the confusion. Here's the licensing bit I intended to reference:



No open source or open protocols mean anything if it doesn't have a legal framework to prevent patent exploitation. People are afraid to adopt new technology if it means that the companies that brought it about might restrict its use down the line. This is part of what the move from GPL v2 to GPL v3 was all about (see the bit here about the MS-Novell deal). The transition to JPEG2000 also has similar issues.

Additionally, the restrictions on commercial use/development are even more disconcerting, especially since Adobe doesn't have that restriction. Although I think its great the authors used GPL v3 probably to help avoid this exact issue, it doesn't mean that the companies who created DJVU in the first place couldn't challenge that move in court. Before it can be widely accepted, those companies need to allay any concerns they'll take DJVU users/developers to court in the future.

Essentially, PDF comes out looking better than DJVU.

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OK, I see.

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Yeah, right, we have a strict sense of legality and we do not use shareware programs after the trial (like winrar). I guess we are all saints and all our ebooks (no matter in which format) are bought and paid. If Linux and M$ pirate sites of appz and blogs to point to such sites never ever existed we probably still using win 3.1 or win95. Someone, somewhere, someday will create -- despite any restrictions -- a free (illegal or not) viewer of djvu format. Of course we don't do this kind of things, we are examples to be follow. I can see above my head a circle shining!

You're right that minor legal issues like what I describe don't affect individuals. However, my desire to spend time and energy on something is mitigated by the idea that its actually going to get used.

Additionally, remember that a format is more than just its viewer: can you export to DJVU from inside your program of choice? Can search programs like DocFetcher effectively search the internals of DJVU files? Do Google Docs, OpenOffice, or Linux support DJVU? All these issues are affected by adoption of the format by more than just individuals.

DJVU is unlikely to catch on as a meaningful alternative to PDF because:

1. DJVU is currently an outsider technology and format
2. Widespread adoption means that (among other groups) big companies start using it
3. Big companies tend to focus on software they have the ability to use it without legal entanglements down the road.

If the licensing and patent issues change, DJVU could become the HTML5 of the document industry, where an open format has become THE standard for a huge percentage of smart phones and web browsers. Lord knows a more open alternative to Microsoft's patent-encumbered XPS would be great.

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I agree with you about the issues that a licence can make to avoid big companies to develope products that use the djvu format, but, how can OpenOffice use/open/write .doc of M$ format anyway? I'm not really a big fan about reading licenses.

Mr. Webfork, Can you please wrote more about your points? The 1 I've not understood. The 2nd and 3th are ok.

Your final paragraph is very important. Would not be a dream we saw HTML5 adopting DJVU (or DJVU owners givin your rights to the community?) just in a plain tag?

Thanks for your comments.

You can grab WinDjView in PortableApps.com Format right here as a development test:
http://portableapps.com/node/21089

We'll be releasing it as final this month in our blitz of new apps

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IrfanView will open DJVU files but requires the plugin pack.

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I tested the dev version last night without success. I was able to open one of the JAR files but the program would only show the first page.

Its possible this is a problem with the setup I'm using.


Nice work, carbonize. I didn't even think to check one of the broad format viewers on the site.

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Last night I modified the official version of WinDJView to see if I could get it to work portably but even with some settings changes that should have kept it to a minimum, it still writes a bunch of junk to HKCU\Software\Andrew Zhezherun\WinDjView

I tested DJVuSolo, but it writes a lot of crap to the registry and couldn't open the DJVU doc I had. Avoid.

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No, this was a reference to the fact that an open technology no one owns can still make money. I'm thinking there's a language barrier here.

Your IP address suggests you're in Brazil, but I don't know how to say this in Portuguese. I know a little Spanish if you'd like to see if that's easier to translate.

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This only concerns the encoding though, not the viewing.

This seems comparable to the MP3 and Vorbis format comparisons, Vorbis is far superior to MP3 and completely open and free, but MP3 is so ingrained (people even call Digital Audio Players, MP3 players) that the majority of people are either ignorant or don't care, so Vorbis support in audio players is secondary.

I think DiVu has a long, hard road ahead of it unless a major software company prominently includes it in their software. Adobe obviously won't and Microsoft will continue their tradition of taking an existing format, making their own that is worse and then convincing the masses that it is the best ever.

I think it will probably be up to LibreOffice to show the general public what this format can do.

I disagree with the Microsoft reference. WMA is actually a pretty decent audio format and Silverlight is better than Flash for many things.

As to why most portable audio players do not support OGG Vorbis that is partly down to power usage. I can't remember exactly why, possibly the catalogue size, but OGG files require more power to play.

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