JauntePE 0.3.0 "Build Portable" GUI feedback req

[redllar]

Hey guys.

I'm finally getting close to finishing up the testing and docs for the 0.3.0 version. And I could use your feedback on the gui for a new "build portable" utility.

030 replaces the launchpad with a set of small utility apps. The purpose of "build portable" is to only create new, and update and/or modify existing, launchers (including previous version launchers). All of the directory setup, jpe ini maintenance, usage discovery, etc., will be handled manually, or eventually, by other utility apps.

There will be a help doc to go into more detail, like what a half-checked "store ..." setting indicates (basically, store it into the new launcher only if it's already stored in the old launcher.)

Here's pics of the important windows. I'd appreciate your feedback, especially if you think it's not complete or not intuitive or confusing in any way.

Thanks.

[Kranor]

Looks OK to me redllar, I noticed a few intriguing little options in there. I'm guessing by the setup that you will not have to manually drag the .dll's into the portable app folder anymore. The only part that looks a little messy is the help tab. It might be better if there was just a launch button for a text document or two rather than having the text on the screen. Maybe two help files a basic and an advanced with two different launch buttons. one possibility would be to have one button link to a a forum or blog page where the more knowledgable users only could contribute to a how to or development page, but everyone could read.

Still looks great and can't wait to get my grubby little paws on it.

[Local]

As an idiot I can honestly say that the gui looks pretty idiot proof.
Some of the tabs look a little wordy do we really need walking through each step that thoroughly?
Not that there's anything wrong with that it just seems like a lot of work when most apps only use two or three word descriptions.

Kranor, do you really think it's worth adding two link/buttons to the gui when txt files could be included in the package and the time saved used on the application itself (or a holiday)?
Just my opinion.

[1ipilot]

Redllar, rather than go the PM route as I've done in the past, thought I'd post for a change now that I'm retired. The GUI looks fine to me. As mentioned to you in the past via PM, the work you've put into this is amazing and the fact that you've stuck with it, even more. At any rate, as mentioned previously, the instructions seemed a bit wordy, but after really sitting back and taking a longer look, in my opinion only, sometimes wordy is good. In this case, for a person like me, the instructions clearly indicate what is required in each step. When injected with terms used by the more experienced forum members, it could leave those of us not as gifted, left in the dust.

[Andrew Lee]

One little suggestion: I think the "Help" tab would be easier to extend later if a textarea control is used for the text.

[grannyGeek]

I can't wait to try this out !!!

I like "wordy", wordy is good when I am first learning to use an app or a new gui.

Some of the terminology might be a little obscure for very new users, maybe you can "dumb it down" a tiny bit with simpler terms ( the references to "absolute/relative" in particular). If your target demographic is only for experienced users, please ignore this comment.


Hope you make a test version available soon, my mouth is watering already.

[Kranor]

Local, I currently am responsible for producing 'help' documentation for the company I work at. For many years I beleived as you do that a simple readme was sufficiant. It is only since I have been in this product support role that I have made one of the worlds most important discoveries..............Nobody reads the readme.... . Seriously how many times have you been on a forum such as this and you have seen a noobish question asked for which the old lags retort is either RTFM or read the readme. (Likewise a common comment on this forum is about not using the search facility.) Having a help tab and a readme that are not lniked would just cause confusion amoungst new users. Also it would save me having to say read the readme 20 times per week. .
Remember at the end of the day redllar did not ask for a debate he asked for suggestions to improve an amazing program that saves me and a lot of other people a lot of time. If we can reward redllars efforts with a little help he may even one day be able to make a little money from this software which considering the help he gives to us, I for one won't begrudge him that. (sorry if it sounded a little rantish but I'm having a busy day telling people to read the readme... )

[Local]

Kranor...... Good point.
I guess I'm lucky that I only teach one person at a time.

To clarify what I wrote before though it was only the build screen that seemed too wordy, the help and setting look simple and concise.

I take it that Noobish in this sense means idiotic?
It's a shame that people don't even seem to try before asking others to do their work. Now that's for a debate the rest was just my opinion.


grannyGeek said

Hope you make a test version available soon, my mouth is watering already.

Ditto

[Kranor]

I have to teach and support 60 men who cant use computers to use SAP for data entry. If you have ever worked with SAP I expect that a cold chill has just gone down your spine. Now envision the person that you know who knows the least about computers and still thinks it funny when you refer to a plastic lump as a 'mouse'. Now times that by 60.............And feel my pain.......

[redllar]

Thank you all for the feedback and interest. I'm shooting for something any JPE user can use, novice or expert, as long as they are a normal or better PC user.

I'm guessing by the setup that you will not have to manually drag the .dll's into the portable app folder anymore.

Yeah, I'm giving it as much smarts as I can think of that are "build portable" related.

One little suggestion: I think the "Help" tab would be easier to extend later if a textarea control is used for the text.

Thanks for the idea. I like it.

As for the wordiness, all the text is manually changeable for now via a couple of ini sections. An example "expert" Build tab is given below. It's mainly there for different languages use, but there's no reason not to use it for this too.

About the link buttons, I think adding one for the full help docs on the About tab would be nice. The other help button type mentioned could be implemented in a number of different ways, like the titlebar "?" button for context sensitive help, or as a completely separate text popup window, either within the app or via an associated app, so I'll probably set that aside for now.

And after some more thought, I've decided to add a dropdown "config list" that will initially be based on the ini settings files from the help doc examples. This should at least be a starting point for people who don't like to muck with jpe ini settings. And if I do it right we'll be able to add to it with configs for specific apps, or hopefully, app bundles like a "DVD Tools" selection.

[Cornflower]

As a normal or better PC User my biggest issue is time, and time to learn the intricacies of anything new, even if in the long run it will save me time, effort, etc. So I have a bunch of command line tools from the 80's that I still use, and which I consider portable, even though they don't and shouldn't meet the definitions here, etc.

So, thanks, redllar, for the creation of a gui for JauntPE, and perhaps when you release it I will use this app that I've been wanting to use but too busy or preoccupied to do more than read the posts and have an initial glance at it.

It looks much more intuitive, love the drag and drop, and the help screen is useful. I do glance at readmes when unzipping, but not when installing. Rather, I really like having the readme embedded in the application as you have done, so that I can get the reminder of the basic forgettable things without having to load (or even keep) a chm or hlp file kicking around.

Lookin' forward to it!

[sgp]

Thanks redllar, it's looking good!

Comments based on the first GUI version posted
General: I like the wordy tabs

More clear to me:
@ Settings/Set launcher's icon to launch application's icon
change to: Set launcher icon to use application icon

Suggestions:
@ Settings: Location of the JauntePE runtime dll...
add button to "Copy jauntePE dll to launcher dir"

It would be nice if somewhere in the GUI one could see the version number of the jauntePE dll that launcher is going to use - It's a fact that I need to use different versions with different applications.

[Kermode]

Let me just add a few comments:

While I generally demand any program to be intuitive to me, I DO read the readmes (or at least start - tons of unix legalese can scare me of) of freeware/shareware since they often aren't that intuitive - and very often there aren't even anything of use IN the readme. Seems most programmers hate writing even one line of anything explaning. So i welcome documentation.

And I prefer it in a file as well since in file i can adjust font size if that becomes a problem. Some programs have the audacity to hardcode tiny fonts which means i may have a hard time reading the text, and its no help if it is unreadble.

And speaking of that, i hope you take into consideration the dpi setting of windows - the default is 95, but i changed it to 120 - and some programs calculate their layout incorrectly because of this (meaning that some buttons may suddenly not be visible, because they are "outside" the frame, etc)

[Zach Thibeau]

An Idea redllar is possibly at first run give the end user the option to have either the "tech option" or the "simplistic option" so that both parties can be satisfied. Personally i like the first 3.0 build better

[redllar]

@ Settings/Set launcher's icon to launch application's icon
change to: Set launcher icon to use application icon

How about "Use the application icon as the launcher icon"? Anyway, it'll be changeable if you still don't like that.

@ Settings: Location of the JauntePE runtime dll...
add button to "Copy jauntePE dll to launcher dir"

I'm not sure what your intention is here. JPEBuilder will copy the dll over when necessary. It really just needs to know where you want it located when the launcher is to be run. And if you have dropped a JPE launcher onto it, JPEBuilder will fill that in as well.

I might have confused things re: the dll, so I split the two JPE dll locations into two separate entries: one for where the dll is always stored (where it will be copied from when setting up/building the launcher) and one for where the dll needs to be when the to-be-built launcher is run. The storage location is intended to be a set-once entry while the runtime entry is something you would change as necessary per-launcher. Please take a look at the new screencaps below to see if this makes more sense now. If not, please explain why you want the text change.

It would be nice if somewhere in the GUI one could see the version number of the jauntePE dll that launcher is going to use - It's a fact that I need to use different versions with different applications.

I wrote JPEBuilder primarily for easy upgrading of older JPE version launchers, so the to-be-used jpe dll will always be 0.3.0 for any launcher it builds or rebuilds. But I was thinking about having a launcher info page, so I could put the dll version there. There may eventually also be a JPEConfig utility for mucking with the actual jpe ini settings and jpe dll info would fall within its functional scope as well.

An Idea redllar is possibly at first run give the end user the option to have either the "tech option" or the "simplistic option" so that both parties can be satisfied.

It's now a selectable. But you guys will have to modify the ini to put whatever text you want in place of what I come up with.

Here's new screencaps of the tabs. I think I've incorporated everything. The Help tab's text is just an example. I will flesh it out eventually.

Please post if you have any more thoughts on functional requirements.